Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Anyone know about Triumphs	6		02/27 11:18pm

By david (208.130.246.211) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 01:03 pm:

i'm concidering getting jacobs electronic spark plug wire set. the way they they describe it, its gods gift to cars. 30% more conductivity, 3 times the throttle responce(!!), etc. have any of used used these wires?
they are quite a bit of money($50),but do have a full lifetime warrenty.
have any of you used any their other products?

thanks for any information

By Don (209.181.52.97) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 06:07 pm:

Hey, David spend that money toward a good ignition system. I when through a community college majoring in auto repair. One of the first projects we did was to test all sorts of aftermarket ignition products on a drag car (sorry it was a Chevy) The results were interesting.
The summary is any good quality wire, a rebuilt dist. with a performance advance curve and possibly a electronic conversion like Pertronix or a latter model Honda dist. hooked into a Msd or Crane hi-6 etc.,a good coil. Will produce the same or better results.
One exception the Jacobs wires have ceramic boots that makes them real good for motorhomes, that cook regular wires.
PS don't even get me started on Splitfire plugs. NGK or ND seem to work well. These findings have been proven more than once on the few dyno test I have been privy to. Hope that helps, and if any one else would like to comment, don't be shy.
I know theres a million and one people that love thier Jacobs wires and Spiltfire plugs and this is fine. The problem is they don't produce any more power (sometimes less) than any other quality part properly selected for the application.

By david (208.130.247.180) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 07:00 pm:

i'm not into racing, so it would be for street aplications. I already have a later honda electric ignition and an accel super coil, i should add some nkg wires/plugs(thats what i previosly was going to get).
since i'm not racing would the MSD or something of the like be of any use? does it make a noticable difference in the lower RPMs?

thanks for your time,
david

By Don (209.181.52.30) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 07:26 pm:

If this is a budget deal, I would make sure all my current ignition parts are up to par (NGK is a good brand).
Then look into having a professional put a performance advance curve on your distributor, tailored to your car, fuel, etc.. Msd's or any other CD ignition does have some benefit, They produce a stronger spark and have other benefits that may reduce the chance of misfire slightly. They may not make a huge difference when compared to the set up you already have, when its operating at its best.
Ps the only way any Ignition wire set (regardless of brand) is going to give you three times the throttle response, is if you have three burned wires on your four cylinder Honda.
Best of luck, Don

By Mad Mel (161.184.40.222) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 04:40 pm:

Hey guys, I worked with high tension aircraft systems and learned way more than the auto wrench truner needs but it has been useful. If you where using a stock ignition on a 1200 the Jacobs wires will not make a noticable difference. Since you have an electronic unit it will make a difference (more at higher RPM usually), and since you have a super coil I would say it's a good match for that coil since it puts out (if I recall) almost three times the voltage of the original one!
I would agree with Don that it's good to do research as well or over "marketed" products are often not good quality products. An good quality plug wire (and plug) will work fine. I use Super Bosch in everything as they seem to last forever and are half the price of the platinums.
A note on those folks living high (thats altitude dude!!) keep all your ignition stuff clean of dirt grease and moisture at arcing gets far easier at higher altitudes and all the high voltage needs is any high resistance path to start arcing. High altitude aircraft magnetos where pressurized from the supercharger outlet to prevent this problem. That is why the best ignitions use an individual high tention coil right at or on the plug. Less chance of high tension leakage.

By david (208.130.245.129) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 05:04 pm:

they do have a lifetime warrenty. i think i'm going to go with them. i'll be the guinea pig and post what the wires do for me. i'm going to get nkg plugs, also.

when i talked to jacobs, they mention how great their ice pak ignition sysytem would be for my car. they quoted 10-15% better horsepower, 10-15% better gas milage, 30% longer engine life, and 10-12% better low to mid-range torque(which would be great!). if this thing really does what they say, it'd definatly be worth the high cost, but that just sounds outlandish. have any of you had any experience with these ignition systems?

By Don (209.181.52.49) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 06:29 pm:

Hey guys,
David's last line is "have you had any experience with these ignition systems" Yes, and I posted my result, last night.
For the aircraft stuff, I spent four years doing that in the USAF and then went back to school because the two fields have little In common. Maybe PiperCub is designing engines for Honda and it's a secret?
The wires do have a lifetime warranty so this may offset the cost.
But what are you trying to accomplish with your purchase?
M&M says that you need these because your coil has three times the current output of stock. So
from this I gather that no wire under 50.00 has enough insulating properties to hold the massive voltage of the "SuperCoil" Or maybe the resistance of the Jacobs wires are so low that they give an extra edge in the ignition department? Then if this is so, why don't motorsport teams who spend mega $ searching out the last few Hp's use them? Maybe they are outlawed? Not! Or maybe if you really want to waste money the "coil on plug" option is always open.
O'sh#t now I'm sounding all anal. This message board stuff is not for me. I will go back to the paying customers.
David, click on my username if you want any further info and send me an e-mail.
Best of luck, Don
http://www.rvi.net/~dforeman/

By david (208.130.247.241) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 08:04 pm:

i ment on civics specifically. a honda 1200 and a chevy big block are quite different engines. i may be wrong. they may have the exact same effect(subjectivly). your point about the motorsports teams is a good one, though. sponsers aside.
don, thanks for your help.
this discussion board has been quite helpful. i mean alot of the time i'll get a few contrasting answers, but its nice in helping to see the full picture. its a good place to throw ideas off people and see what bounces back. ultimatly,its not the other people on the board that are working on my car. i just want to explore every reasonable avenue to make my car run the best that it can.
thanks for your help, though. its nice to get information based on years of expertise vs. "well, i read somewhere..."

again thank you, to everyone who takes the time out of there day to address a question from a know nothing 20 year old kid.

By Don (209.181.52.68) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 08:50 pm:

Your welcome,
Your right about you being the only one working on your car. Keep careful notes if something improves your performance try and find out why.
If something doesn't work find out why. This will lead to better results.

EXAMPLE. If you where to take a 16 oz bottle of water and dump it in the gas tank with the fuel
and you ran it on a dyno or did an acceleration test and the results showed a 5 hp gain. Do you go out and sell all your friends bottled water for a huge profit, showing them your results?
No! If you would have checked the timing you would have found that the timing was advanced 20 degrees over what it was suppose to be and the eb3 pistons that you put under the eb2 head put the compression way over what the 89 octane could reliably handle. The water cooled the combustion temp down, producing the better results. Now knowing this you reset the timing, run race gas (Lucky you)and test again
No water. You record a 15hp increase.

THIS IS ONLY AN EXAMPLE MADE UP TO MAKE A POINT.
DON'T DUMP WATER IN YOUR GAS.

Sponsorships- Would you run something that would take you from first place back to second?

The point about a Chev/VS Honda
Does the engine know what brand it is? No!
Do different design differences between brands lead to different results? yes sometimes!
Will something learned from one engine cross to another. Most definitely, but proceed with a plan and test and retest.

About the 20 year remark, you probably know more than you let on.
Besides all us Northwest car freaks have to stick together.

By david (208.130.245.62) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 09:16 pm:

this board has needed more shpeilers like us.
i doubt i'm going to shill out the $400 odd bucks they want for their ignition system-assist modual or whatever it is. i think, nkg makes a good wire that also has a lifetime warrenty, and for about $20-$25 less. i really do have better places for that money, i.e; header, carbs, cam, brakes, and suspention, not to mention body work, new fenders, new interior and a nice stereo. sounds like i could use all the money i can get.


where in the northwest are you? i'm in portland.

By david (208.130.245.62) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 09:22 pm:

i would still like to hear from anyone who has used any jacobs products on their civics, though.
then again after spending that much money on an ignition system whatcha-madoo, i might delute myself into thinking that my car was performing better.
hey it might do what they say... at least partially.

By Don (209.181.52.68) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 09:31 pm:

Located in Central Point,OR (Medford suburb)works out good, Portland International raceway 5hrs, Seattle 6.5hrs Willows 4.5hrs SearsPoint 7hrs
There has been a few civic 1200 guys from Oregon popping up, Ted is coming down from Eugene tomorrow to buy some spare parts.

By david (208.130.245.100) on Friday, February 23, 2001 - 10:53 pm:

i drove thru medford last week. it was bigger than i thought it would be.
what kind of stuff do you have? any parts resource is a gem.

By Don (209.181.52.16) on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 12:14 pm:

Hey, David
Ted bought all the extra stuff I wanted to part with for now. E-mail me with a want list and I will keep my eyes and ears open.
Saw you were looking for a dash from our friends way down south. They drive on the wrong side-or maybe we do. New dashes are available from your local dealer, find a cool counter man and never pay list. Most shop accounts get 15-20% off. A reasonable dealer should be able to do the same for you on big ticket items.
Hope that helps, Don

By david (208.130.246.167) on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 12:59 pm:

i wasn't planning on getting the dash from aussy. justin in b.c. has a mint one from a '75 wagon that he going to sell to me for $50US. i doubt that postage is going to be more than $20 from b.c. to portland.

as for a wish list i want what everyone wants:
RS manifold,

dual keihens,

cam grinded to RS specs(stock height, 15 degree longer duation, i think)
i really don't know anything about cams,

lowerd(1.5-2.5 in)/stiffer springs,

all the ness. parts to do the good brake conversion,

front window seal(it seals fine, but it's nasty and the chrome trim is all crinkled),

straight '73 front bumper,

front grill peice,

the perfect 5 slot mags(12,13,14"),

suggestions on where to go to get my distributer recurved(how much should i pay?),

and a few other little things that i can't think of now.

By Don (209.181.52.64) on Saturday, February 24, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

David
e-mail me at dforeman@adninternet.com
so we don't have the record for the longest running
discussion board link. I have some of those parts
and others that are close like a sidedraft Weber setup,that I can't use because of the IT rules, Darn!

By Mad Mel (161.184.41.242) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:48 am:

Hey Don...you are absolutely right..."Does the engine know what brand it is" That includes Continental or Honda. A piston engine is a piston engine and one is designed to work on the ground and one is designed to opperate under differing altitudes. Many motorcycles and cars now use the "coil on the plug" now so I didn't understand your sarcasm? Fuel injection compensates for air density. These ideas started with the A/C industry? (Piper doesn't make engines btw; ) Not to say the piston A/C engines couldn't use electronic igniton from our world!!! Those magnetos are so archaic (similar Bendix on a 1940 tractor). At least they could use the transistor/electonic fired ones drag racing uses so one is not worrying aobut the points fouling/burning at 10,000 ft.

I was just trying to let David know that good wires can make the difference with all other components considered. Might not have articulated my words appropriately from your gruff reply. Personally I just have a roll of quality 8mm wire and make my own and have excellent results. I also have had no problem running the latest electronic unit from a auto manufacturer (Honda etc). I only drive on the street and ice tracks so miniscule hoarse power gains are not as big a concern for me as it would be in pavement racing. Since Hondas are so easy to drop larger later model engines into it's cheap hoarse power. Thats why I run 1200's now instead of Minis.

By Todd (63.52.3.52) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:06 pm:

My two cents is if you spend 1000$ on ANY set of wires, you're not going to get 3 times the throttle response, much less 50$. You can tell the difference between el-cheapos and good wires, but its not so drastic to justify the difference in price. Like you said David, you have better things to spend money on. Take the 50$ and have the flywheel lightened. Talk about noticable throttle response.

By Don (209.181.52.30) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:30 pm:

I wasn't trying to belittle any one.
But keep in mind the application and intended use of what we are talking about.

Even if you steped down from a "coil on plug" to a DIS system, the hp per dollar spent would have little to no effect for this application. As for the who started what technolgy its real debateable, but that has no bearing on this board. The PiperCub was a joke, abet sarcastic. I know that they dont make engines that's why I said it. The USAF thas a few of them.

"coil on plug" & "DIS" have some real advantages in certain instances and in many applications.
In this aplication and street use Its really a waste, of time and money
when a simple recurve and Set of quality wires would do just fine, Agreed?

I wasn't dismissing your knowledge or good will, just trying to help a fellow Civic buddy keep his "feet on the ground" if you will.

So you like Mini's Eh?
When I was in Deutchland (Germany) I puchased one of those it was a 82,or 84 I dont rebember, Convertible. Boy it was fun driving down the Autobahn, a few times I did kinda stop and think what would happen if I cracked it up (small car, soft top). I did think about racing those too. Hondas are very cheap and plentiful comparitivly here in the USA when compared to mini's.

Nice talking to ya, Tell you what, I will be doing some R&D work on a chassis dyno later this summer to try and find an edge, as we cant have those 1200 Datsuns out powering us now can we? Your more than welcome to show up and bring what ever you want as long as it remotely applies to my application and we will put it on.
Good luck, Don

By Mad Mel (161.184.40.158) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 07:35 pm:

Thanks Don... I see where you are comming from now,,,and conversly where I am comming from! : ) The coil on plug advatage to me is that it negates the need for high tention maintinance all together and there for proportionately improves relyability. Pure HP there is little difference, you are right (just like those split fires ; ).
I drive in extremely remote areas so relyability is "Paramount" here in the Canadian Rocky Mountains. I am only at 6,000 ASL and I notice arcing problems. Have to clean my cap and wires every two or three months.. I like to build something and forget about it (other than religious filter & oil changes)for some time. Yes maybe I am lazy or to damn old but I like driving far more than pissing around with maintinance anymore. LOL Didn't mind screwing with an engine every day when I was 20...how things change.

The air force uses cubs...hmmm Im impressed! How do they mount a side winder on it...LOL Just for information sake coil on plug was done back during or just after WW II and I never seen this in a car until the past 5 to 10 years. Mind you the applications I have seen it have been hemi engines. The coils aren't sitting above an exaust manifold cooking so in our application it would only work on a non-crossflow engine...

Yes Mini's rock & you are right about reflecting on wiping out in the puny rag top!! Could be scary! The hard top Mini's take a crash really well compaired to our beloved Hondas. How fast could ya get the wee bugger up to on the Bahn? Thats what sucked about the Mini, 1300 was the big block!! Have a great day!
Randy

By david (208.130.245.78) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 08:20 pm:

its nice to see harmony is once again restored in the galaxy.

By errol (152.163.204.189) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 10:24 pm:

Is that distilled water or off the tap?.......Only kidding!!

I bought Jacobs wires about 11 years ago (back then you had to 'make' the distributor end with a vulcanizing agent) and used thier chrome coil on a 87 crx with dual Mikunis. I did geta better idle, throttle response, and mileage. and they did not waist any time on getting me a replacement for a wire that wouldn't 'vulcanize'........BUT i don't know if i would spend the money again. Those people you 'talk to' are into sales, and for a engine that isn't going to see 6000rpm just get yourself a crane xr700 setup from JC Whittney (went up to 80 or 90.00) takes 3 wires to hook up (besides swaping all the 'point guts' from inside) and my 76 wagon with a 1600 is getting about 3mpg more! I also used 4 Mallory wires off of my Chevy 383 (that's out) and my vacume advance can just poooped out (you can order ones for different years that will fit and have a different 'curve' (all in by 3000rpm)

so you can see how spending a few bucks in the right places can give you a great response

ps...get together with someone else who has a 4cl and split the cost of a set of universal 8-10mm spiral core wires from a v8 and cut them to fit and they would be cheaper

By Todd (63.52.5.46) on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 09:07 am:

Hey Don,
Keep us in the loop when you go experimenting. We'd all like to know what works and what doesn't.

By Don (209.181.52.31) on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 12:42 pm:

Was already planing on posting my results, but like i said will be at least mid-summer before the car is finished. It really got beat up from when the pictures were taken, as Ted will vouch.
The cool thing is that Ted will have seen the "before" & "after" Hows the 73 bumper search?

By tedshred (63.224.195.169) on Monday, February 26, 2001 - 01:10 pm:

Old #98 has seen better days for sure, but Don is a master at clean-up and repair. Still can't get over your 50 dollar parts car. Looks better than my 600 buck '74. Hell, I spent 50 bucks on an EB3 head last month. You never did tell me what you spent on that racer? I didn't feel comfortable asking as we were still talking prices on those parts. How much did it cost?

Did you say what year that "abandoned" civic was that you have your eye on? I'm wodering how the front strut hoods look like.