Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Need distributor wiring help please	1		03/14 10:45am

By Eric B (63.199.115.252) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 09:05 am:

I assumed (incorrectly) that the distributor was the same year as my car ('74) and ordered rebuild parts for it (point + condenser, Honda P/Ns 30108-PAI-005 and 30101-634-671) - neither are even close to fitting.

So I took some pics of the distributor taken apart - does anyone here recognize it and can give me a year and model it came off of please?

http://sb1.honda-perf.org/distributor.jpg

thank you

-e

By Todd (63.52.3.73) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 10:34 am:

Hey Eric,
That dizzy is from the second gen Civic. It is an electronic distributor and doesn't use points. You also need the wiring from the same car and the coil. Do not use a balast resistor with the new coil and be sure to gap your plugs as a car with electronic ignition (.040 I think)

By david (208.130.246.240) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 11:00 am:

i recently changed over to points from a pointless ignition(not by choice). should they be a different gap now?

By Eric B (63.199.115.252) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 11:20 am:

Todd

How much wiring should be added to convert? i assume it is all there but I guess I ought to thoroughly check it out - how is the external coil from the 74 different form the coil from a second gen? not having checked I ordered and bought a brand new 74 external coil along with point/condensor- should i return/exchange it?

-e

By Anonymous (208.60.186.11) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 03:12 pm:

If you are converting to a second gen dist. be sure to use an x-tra mounting plate at the bottom to make up for the longer shaft. The one from your old dist. will wrok but they will line up differently, get a 2nd gen one and they will match. As for wiring, If you pull one from the junkyard, mark the wires and where they go as you remove the harenss. It's best to get the coil with it so you don't have to disconnect it, and just take the coil and related wires off of the main harness. Even if the coil is bad(mine was) it is easier to have the wires installed and then replace the coil than it is to deal w/ a mess o' loose wires. I installed mine a few months ago, and haven't noticed a difference.- Tony T.

By Todd (63.52.17.84) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 04:52 pm:

You'll notice on his pic that the extra plates are already installed on his dizzy.
The difference in the coils is that one can be safely used without a ballast resistor, allowing a hotter spark. If memory serves, you have only 2 or 3 wires on a harness attached to the dist. These are all you need. Also, because of the hotter spark, you should use the wider gap.

By david (208.130.241.197) on Wednesday, March 14, 2001 - 10:18 pm:

in my shp manuel it says that i should gap my plugs to .028-.031. they are at .40 right now. as i said above i had electronic ingition(allison), but now have points.

By Paul Johnson (216.84.148.40) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 07:54 am:

I have noted the usefull help given by Todd and Tony T. It also looks like there are not one but two extra plates added as spacers in Eric's picture. I also want to do this conversion to my 75 Civic. I don't have the luxury of seeing how the pointless dizzy is wired. I am using an Accell coil with my old system and an MSD rev limiter. I would like to keep this system in place. is this possible if I skip the ballast resistor to the same coil? Also can anyone tell me how the other two wires to the pointless dizzy are wired?
Paul

By Todd (63.52.18.93) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 09:03 am:

Sorry David, I misread your post. With points you should use the .028.
Paul, I am using the Accel super coil with mine. The dizzy has 3 wires. the solid black wire goes to the noise filter (capacitor), the blue wire goes to the neg. terminal of the coil, and the black/striped wire goes to the positive terminal of the coil. The super coil specifically says use the ballast resistor, so I would use it.

By Anonymous (168.30.218.158) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 09:08 am:

Ignitions is a topic that no two people agree on. I think that the 2nd gen electronic ig also has a wire for the electronic fuel pump. My advice is to read some of the older posts on ignition, in particular the ones where problems with the tach are involved. - Tony T.

By tedshred (63.224.195.169) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 09:30 am:

I just finished putting the 2nd Gen electronic dizzy on my 74. When I pulled it from the car at the yard, I grabbed the whole system, but cut the line leading to the fuel pump. When I put the elec dizzy into my car I had to use not one but TWO extra spacers to make it exactly the same length as the old points dizzy. The plate that comes with the elec dizzy is different than the points dizzy plate. Because of this I had to do some custom drilling to the extra plates to enable me to get the full Advance/Retard motion. It's nice to know I wil never have to adjust points. Bomber system. Buy a new cap and rotar, but fresh plugs, buy new coil and dizzy leads for the system too. Gap the plugs at 039 to 041. Remove the Balast resistor, and connect this lead to the coil.

By david (208.130.246.22) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 11:13 am:

todd, what do you mean points to .028? we're talking about spark plug gap here. my book says that the points should be at .045-.055. my spark plug gap is at .040, i had electronic ignition in, but i now have points.

By Todd (63.52.3.192) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 11:56 am:

I mean with the points ignition, use the factory plug gap of .028. Also, it depends upon which car you get your new dizzy from as to how many extra spacers you'll need. Fuel pump wire? Never seen it.

By david (208.130.245.164) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 12:14 pm:

thanks todd, i set my plugs to .030 and there is still the heitation(the carb) but it starts right up and i don't have to coax it for 15 minutes to stay started.

paul J., what is a rev limiter. sounds interesting.

By PJ (216.84.148.34) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 07:21 pm:

An RPM limiter is an electronic device that does not interfere with an ignition system until the RPM gets up to and in excess of the engine speed that the limiter is pre set for. As the engine begins to cross this line the rev limiter begins eliminating the spark to one or more cylinders. In order to prevent backfires the rev limiter doesn't just pick on one cylinder but computer randomly selects one or two of the four cylinders with which it denys spark. MSD is the most well known unit for race cars and they come in two types. The cheaper unit is ordered by the new user with a chip in it. The chip is set for a specifie RPM the buyier doesn't want to exceed. It may be 6500 RPM or 8000 RPM etc.etc. If the user wants to change the operating ceiling of his engine he must buy and install a new Chip set for that new limit. The slightly more expensive unit has a dial on the box which can be set to (In my case from 6000 RPM to 8700 RPM) MY 75 Civic was suspected of spinning a bearing at a race last year when the motor was spinning at just short of 6200 Rpm (said the engine rebuilder) I have since learned that with a full race cam Jackson Headers and a pair of 35mm Dell'Orto side drafts (this is in my race car) could (with the proper big end rod bolts) spin to 8000 + RPM with no problems. All this I have done but no matter what jetting or carburetor rebuild work, plugs, timing (even with my adjustable cam wheel etc.etc. the car wont exceed 6500RPM without breaking up. This is why I am looking to install a pointless dizzy. If anyone has any ideas man I'd love to hear them. Thanks guys PJ

By Eric B (63.199.115.252) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 12:00 pm:

Wow - thanks very much guys for the wealth of info - I am much obliged....

-e

By david (208.130.240.30) on Wednesday, March 21, 2001 - 12:50 pm:

i want to get an '80-'83 mechanical dizzy for my civic for two reasons. first, its mechanical advance, meaninig two less vacumn tubes to deal with. and secondly, of course, it get rid of the points. i have heard that the elctronic ignitions on those can be worn out because of age. can you find new electronic ignition peice to go inside?
if so, is it hard to put on and where can i get it?

By Todd (63.52.5.147) on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 12:04 pm:

I have not seen that they wear out, just that the grease inside dries up and freezes everything. This is easily remedied with a complete cleaning and rebuild.

By david (208.130.241.240) on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 12:36 pm:

what is entailed in rebuilding a distributor?
should i have it professionally done. i could get it recuved at the same time. is a recurve a recurve or is it based on stats from your engine? i'm put in a mild cam, RS header, and dual keihens. should i wait to get it recuved until i get those in?
so, the electronic ingnition in one of those later dizzies will have the same responce as putting one of the pretronix ones in?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 03:04 pm:

You can't just tell someone to recurve your dizzy ... how do they know what the timing curve should look like?
The only way to recurve a dizzy is on a dyno. What the dyno operator will do is tune the engine for max hp at various different rpm. This involves adjusting the timing, carb(s) etc. In the end they'll end up with a compromise (get less than max power at one spot to get a bit more elsewhere) so the engine has the sort of power curve you are after. Once they know what the timing should be at any particular rpm, they will recurve the dizzy so it produces the right advance (or as close as they can get it) at the right rpm. If you've got a programmable ignition (Haltec, Motec etc.) you can just program in the advance curve you want.

By david (208.130.240.11) on Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

thanks for the info. i knew that. i just wasn't puting a few things together.

By Dave (202.154.130.214) on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 03:59 pm:

I am about to put a City Dizzie in my 79' Civic. This was recommended because it is a one piece all enclosed unit without the extra box, just connect the 2 wires. It is going into a rally car, so the main advantage is the water resistance when going through Fords etc. I have been told that the 2nd Gen box doesn't like getting wet. The only hassle is the mounting plate which needs to be about 3 std plates thick. I am going to have a mate make me one instead of using 3 plates, partly because I am going to have to rotate the Dizzie to clear my twin side draft manifold. My points Dizzie has a lot of play in the shaft (sideways) and dosn't like the high revs

By david (208.130.245.244) on Friday, March 23, 2001 - 11:00 pm:

where can i find one on these city dizzys? how much?
they are mech. advance right?