Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	WHAT TO DO?	2		03/20 09:23pm

By ROotUS (203.20.149.5) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 10:10 pm:

i am hoping this conversation will attract those who have done bodywork on their civics to share secrets, or even just techniques with me and anyone else who reads this. cmon, who here has bought a honda without needing to fix a few dents?
painting info also good!

By Jacob (24.12.161.208) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 12:47 am:

I haven't started the body work yet, but when I do, it'll be filling the factory holes from the body molding (mig welder), and a couple of very small dents, I'll pull those, and then smooth them with a little bondo/fiberglass filler. That's going to be the extent of the body work.

My question is, anybody do any rust neutralizing? I'm thinking of buying some rust neutralizer for the little rails on top of the car, and in the spare tire carrier.

Also, I want to undercoat the underside, and inside the spare tire area (after the rust treatment). Anybody ever done this before? Any part of the interior that doesn't have that heavy factory coating, we're going to put undercoating on, any recommendations?

Thanks

By ROotUS (203.34.130.112) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 05:51 am:

by mouled holes, you mean the ones left for badges? any tips for pre body work body prep.? like removal of paint anyone?

By Anonymous (216.226.193.3) on Sunday, March 18, 2001 - 03:39 am:

If you intend on using bog or another body filler it is recommended that you remove the paint from that area. Try to beat out with a hammer and dolly as much of the dents as possible, the less body filler the better.

With rust, take it all out. Or better yet start with something rust free. removal will mean re- welding in metal. not fun on thin panels as they tend to buckle with the heat, unless you are good at welding.

When painting a car at home do not remove the factory paint that is in good condition. Scuff it up with a fine grade sand paper and clean properly. It is a fine art to get paint to stick to bare metal. Where you have gone back to metal you will need an etch primer (unless bogging)before a prime coat or undercoat, this chemically bonds with the metal.

Oh and this is the easy stuff.

remember If it isn't too bad a body you can spend the money on performance. After all why have a car that is all show and no go?

By Dave (24.115.112.227) on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 12:17 pm:

Hey,
My Dad and I had to do a lot of body work on my civic. We put in sheet metal in the wheel wells where it had rusted through and Fiberglassed over top of that to stop it from rusting again. We had to replace much of the floor boards aswell with sheet metal too. I don't know how to weld and was unwilling to pay to get it done so we just pot viveted (is that how you spell it?) it all in and put undercoat over it. It has been fine... The only thing I noticed that was a problem was the quality of the metal in the civic... I find every year I have to smash out a rust spot sand it all down and refiberglass the area above the rear wheels. I just found a big fat rust spot on the bottom of my spare tire too! We painted my car with crappy tremclad spray paint which has worked quite well for the price. Then if you have to sand and repaint it only costs a few dollars. Then we put a lot of clear coat on top to seal everything up. All and All to do bodywork is pretty straight forward but to do bodywork very well is extremely difficult.
Dave

By Charles R. (64.170.157.132) on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 11:25 pm:

I lucked out with my body work. I did all the preliminary stuff on my own. Things like, flaring the fenders out, shaving the emblems and mouldings. I even shaved the rear hatch latch (I built a remote release). Then through shear luck I ended up having all the finish body work and paint done by a national chain body shop. I have to admit, they did a great job making my rough work look great.

By Anonymous (65.0.25.235) on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 09:19 am:

Good body work is all in the prep. If you don't have a PERFECT base, the final coat(s) of paint will look crappy. Always "build" if you're using plastic filler (code name: bondo, although there are better products).
I just restored a not-Honda and had to cut out rust and scarf on new pieces of metal. Shaping, filling and sanding. After everything is smooth, hit with etching primer, then sealing primer. Then you can glaze coat with an easy sanding plastic filler to smooth things up. Use a "fat" (easy sanding primer), then "long board" sand it. Then wet sand it with at least 400. 600 up to 2000 is show quality. You don't want to do this. Really. Don't bother doing finish paint coats in your garage unless you like defects in your paint. A good booth is the ONLY way to get perfect paint, but anything other than finish coats can be done at home.
As anon. above said, scuff factory paint (use 600 grit) just enough to dull it so it has "tooth" the other paint can stick to. Epoxy prime it, then shoot your touch-up within 5 days to avoid resanding (varies with the manufacturer; within 24 hours is best with epoxies .
PPG is the pro's current Paint du jour. I prefer DuPont; like everything about Imron (but the smell), mainly cuz its really shiny and bulletproof. Using a manufacturer's system of paints (i.e. DuPont etching primer, Prima Seal, Sanding/Filling Primer, then Imron or Base/Clear Coat final) can simplify your chemistry set, but it will also cost you a PILE OF MONEY>
There are some rust neutralizers out there, but don't use them unless you have no other choice (like rust up inside the hood cross pieces). It's best on surface level rust. If you have rust through, fuggidabowdit. Get with a metal guy and cut and paste. A good metal guy can work magic. The honda body panels are really thin to be welding to; find replacements if possible.
I'm no expert, but I've been restoring a number of car types for years. Remember, it's just straighten, fill and sand. When you straighten, you have to leave the metal at or below the adjacent surface. If you're above, you'll have a pimple. Dimples can be filled. Pimples can't. In the long run, it's just paint. You can always sand/strip it off and start over. Every screw up is a learning experience. Don't be in a hurry. Good luck.

By Anonymous (65.0.25.235) on Sunday, April 15, 2001 - 09:22 am:

Addendum... I'd use a grinder with a wire wheel attachment in the spare tire well to get the rust all the way out. Wear a mask and goggles and leather gloves. The little wires break off and hurt!

By Zoin (209.226.248.112) on Monday, April 16, 2001 - 09:19 am:

Glass blast that surface rust! If you have a compressor get a little blaster for those tricky parts. It is amazing how it can make it look new and ready for primer. Works well on door seams too. I just hate seeing a paint job where the paint falls off on the panel seams because they could not get in tight with paper. The real thing is what the fellow said above. Every thing you do you learn. Read, learn, try your best and learn again. It will make you proud and give you skills. One thing... don't take on more than you can chew in one bite. Over and over I see ads where someone is selling a car because the lost interest. More like they went to fast with the skill that they had. This works with some that are "unstoppable" and can accomplish anything but it is best to judge your self. Try to make up a bit of a schedule and try to keep to it. It helps, really! A big job is a bunch of little jobs rolled into one. One at a time eventually will get them all. =)

By Anonymous (65.0.25.235) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 11:22 pm:

Hey! Check out this site:
http://www.type2.com/library/body.htm
Yeah, it isn't Honda, but vw buses are cool too if you listen to the Dead. And this site as beau coup info you might could use.

By Travis (24.0.224.35) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 11:35 am:

Can anyone share what the fastest method of removing vast (the whole car) areas of paint? I am taking all the paint off using a 3M paint wheele atached to a drill and it is just taking a forever... Are there any other quick means?

Thanks,
Travis

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 06:05 pm:

The easiest ways to do it are to get it sand blasted or acid dipped. There are some drawbacks to acid dipping though. Namely it removes ALL the paint from inside sills, panels etc and you have to wash it a LOT after dipping so with no paint inside the cavities and the like there is a very good chance it'll start to rust fairly soon, especially if some water is left in there after washing.
A freshly sand blasted car looks great . After blasting, most places can spray on a special zinc-phosphorous coating to stop it rusting. One thing it does do is show up EVERY tiny ding and if the people who blast it aren't that great you can get very wavy panels (sand blasting generates a lot of heat which can distort the panels if you aren't careful).

By Travis (24.0.224.35) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 06:09 pm:

How much should it run to have my whole car sandblasted? In USD.

Thanks,
Travis

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 06:42 pm:

There's only one way to find out. Get out your local yellow pages, look up sand or grit blasting and give a few a ring ...

By Anonymous (65.0.25.235) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 09:07 pm:

Realistically, I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of $400. I had just the back tub of a '69 convertible not-honda done and it cost $200.
You could use a chemical stripper yourself. It usually works in layers, so if you do it once and the original factory primer seems intact, you can scuff it (see above...) and seal it and paint it. I've been using a product called Aircraft stripper. It's good stuff, and you can do large areas fast. It worked really good taking off my first mistake (and my second, and my third, and...) A gallon is cheap compared to blasting, but be careful and like the fella said, make sure you rinse it real good.
Or...you can get a media blasting gun. I got one at Home Depot, but you can also get them off the net (try Eastwood Co.). Instead of sand, use a plastic media (the reason they call it media blasting now is that sand is seldom used), or walnut shells. Or you can get some aggressive abrasives like garnet. The problem here is that you'll have a gun hooked to a compressor, and another feed hose stuck in a bag. If you dont have a blast booth, you get to use your media once, and it goes from about 10 cents a pound for sand up to like a buck a pound for garnet (plastic and walnut shells run around 30 cents a pound). If you can get it done with 200 lbs. of shell, it cost you $60!!! And it's organic (so's sand), so you aren't messing up the environment.
Wire wheels are boring, but effective. Have fun. Hey! Got pix?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 09:22 pm:

Organic silica eh? Must have weird sand where you come from .

By Charles R. (64.170.157.184) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 11:50 pm:

There are also some companies that use baking soda for the blasting media. This one has the wierdest story of all. You don't have to remove any thing. Rubber, glass, most plastics, even body fillers, the soda doesn't touch them. Something about a reaction between the paint and the soda during blasting is what makes it effective.

However you do it, be as cautious as possible. Although some of the media types are environmentaly friendly, the paint that comes off the car isn't. Neighborhood busy-bodies tend to flip when they see big clouds of dust. And with our EPA laws, the last thing you want to do is find out you HAVE to clean up an "environmental hazard".

By errol (64.12.106.53) on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 08:11 am:

Look into 'soda' blasting (baking soda) while talking to companies that 'blast'. If you can take off as much trim and bumpers and stuff it saves them time and you money! It would have cost me 400-450 to soda blast a 72 chevy monte carlo, which is about 1 3/4 civics. It blows off easy after(which the shop will do) and it desolves even beter with water. YES WATER! And then get a GOOD metal prep (sold by por15) spray on all blasted surfaces and rinse again. (i let my monte sit for about 3 weeks that way NO SURFACE RUST) let dry and use either a good epoxy primer or just a good primer/sealer and start filling the dings and small dents. Get it as flat as possible shoot another heavy primer coat,let it 'flash'(almost dry) and then a really thin or wet coat and that seeps in the nooks and crannies. Let dry. wet sand with 380-400 and then wet the floor for dust control and start spraying top coat (get the 'fan' even with the pannel you are painting) also use tape to hold the hose to your arm that will be doing the painting and go longwise with the car not up and down with long even strokes and overlap by about 30% wwith the next pass and so on. Oh yeah do the door jams and seams first so you won't run. It might turn out ok It might not It's a science..that's why they charge soo much but then again I've seen some pretty darn goood back yard jobs sorry so long

By Travis (64.12.105.22) on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 01:38 am:

Yeah I have some pics.. of the project underway. I took them after the car had been stripped of all it's parts... I will post them soon (Have them oin my other computer). I appriciate all the infor guys... Turns out since that post I went out and go some paint remover... works well... exept for the couple application needed to get all the left behind patches of paint... leaves mice smoth metal ready to be sanded.. which is nice... Seems I am gonna go threw a lot of this paint remover to get the whole car done.. but it sure makes it easy.

Oh yeah; one more question.... rear hatch window removal? I have read my shop book.. but doesn't explain enough. I already have all of the crome metal trime off around the runnder... but I can't seem to pop the window out... the rubber is just holding it too tight... anyone know a good way to get it out without killing the seal (I wanna save it, cause it is one of only a coupel seals still in ok shape .. hehe)?

But hay lets keep this thread going strong.. has done a good job healping me get started. I'm sure it can do the same for others.

Thanks guys!

Travis

By Travis (24.4.254.128) on Monday, April 30, 2001 - 02:49 pm:

Here are a few pictures of the project so far. As of being stripped.










I know boaring.. but hay, I gotta share.

Travis