Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Oil pump 'n' sump 'n' junk	1		04/11 05:04pm

By david (208.130.246.203) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 02:35 am:

excuse me, but i need to vent.
so lets recap. i go to LA in the middle of febuary. i get home with a few small problems and quite scruffy. after i get it home i start having some hesitation problems, so i rebuild the carb. this turns out to be quite a bigger mess than i expected, but finally after a few days i get it back together. it runs alright for about 2 days and then goes to crap, won't start, backfires, the whole nine yards. i get very frustrated and decide to take the car to a shop. the shop charges me for 3 hours for changing the points, hooking up the vacumn lines corrrectly, and timing it. i go to get it it runs, but not very well and the hesitation is still there. mechanic blames this on the clutch going. i take it home, mess with the carn adjustments and acually get it running better. drive it for a few days in a state i shouldn't of been and it gets progessivly worse. i am getting very angery by this point, so i get a 28/30 dgv weber from quikrick. when i put it on all it does it backfire and run like shit. i stress out for a few days trying to figure out what the problem is and bothering alot of very nice people. i finally take it to a little garage down the street and they tell me that the intake studs were too lomg and wern't allowing the carb to sit flush in addition to bending the secondary throttle valve. they fixed it by stacking some generic gaskets to clear the studs and it seemed to run great, but has a little weirdness in the higher rpms. the points looked kinda fryed, so i decide to get new points and put them on. well, this changes the timing and the car wouldn't start. i don't have a timing light, so i'm just makeing blind adjustments until it finally starts and i drive to a bretheren of mine who does have a light and he times it and gets it running alright. the next day i go and get a stock coil because mine looks fried. put it on and it go to work. on the way it started acting funny and pregessive getting worse maxxing out a 25 with this real jerky hesitation. i'm forced to stop at a texaco sevice station and the guy there reluctantly helps me out and screws with it until it runs barely ok. i had the coil hooked up backwards, but he also messed with the timing and told me i needed a new accerator pump and that my model of weber was not a good one. he was a ••••••••. so now it drives and gets progessive worse over a couple days of drivinfg it for work. oh yeah did i mention i deliver spagetti in it too. i guess i'm luck 'cuz we don't get very many deliveries. anyway, so i mess with the timing my ear by turning the dizzy to where its at its highest rpms anf then back an 1/8". it runs , but it has this hard jerked knock and starts up real hard. my throotle is sticking this whole time too. i really don't want to hurt this engine so i take it back to the shop so mabey they would cut me a deal on some work. i figured it had something to do with a vacumn leak. they put it on the smoker and there didn't seem to be a vacumn leak. they changed the points and condenser and timed it up(i was 15 degrees off!!) and it ran wonderful save a little weak on the low end. so i'm driving it to work and about15 blocks from the store this stupid chick in a maxima slammes into my rear, i pull over and she takes off. tottaly bend in my perfect 73 bumper in about 3 inches. didn' get her lisence plates, either. i'm like ok well that sucks, but my cars running good. then i come to a stop and my •••• brakes start making this grinding noise and continues everytime i stop. picked up new shoes and fluid. hope i haven't wrecked the rotor. anywho, i drive for work and every thing seems fine. i get home and leave about a half hour later and the car starts running weird with that hesitation that i know all to well. i get to my freinds house. a couple hours later i go to leave and its real realy bad. maxxing out at 25 popping, jerking, backfireing. i hadn't touched that damn thing sinse i got it back from the shop!!!! what the hell could this be? could my timing belt or something be streched out? could it still be the carb even though they used that smoker on it? i talked to a guy once that had a plate in his exhaust fall off inside and clog it up. could this of happened? any advice at at would be much appereciated. sorry for the novel. i hope this doesn't sound too stupid and inane.
thank you for your time,
david

By Andrew Fatseas (61.12.0.102) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 05:56 am:

David, have you replaced the spark plugs yet? I had a similar intermittent problem once - rebuilt the carb, mucked around with leads and timing, but it turned out to be a cracked plug which would sometimes work, then other times not.

By tedshred (63.224.195.169) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 08:59 am:

David, that's classic stuff! I hear you are pretty angry and frustrated. I know that Honda is your only car, and that makes it all that much harder.

As for the girl in the Maxima, report it anyway. The police have very sophisticated databases that can find that car. Also, drive around the area you were hit and you may find that car parked nearby.

As for the running problems, start with the basics like plugs, points, cap, rotor, etc. Keep at it. You will get it running good again.

By david (208.130.246.135) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 02:19 pm:

i changed the plugs and adjusted the carb to the best lean settings instructions that i got from a guy a performance comp.(bud). it made a major diff. the runs run good except there is that incesant hesitation. could the smoker of not reveiled a small vacumn leak and that could be the problem? i ordered the adapter to manifold gasket from weber, but it won't be here for a week, week and a half. i also took my drivers side wheel of and my rotor is toast. it has all these groove in it. it has quiite a bit of meat on it, so i'll just have to keep using them like that until i can get the money for the wagon accord brake conversion. how can i tel if a rotor and caliper is useable? should i rebuild the caliper before i put it in?
thank you for you help

By tedshred (63.224.195.169) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 03:36 pm:

A rotor is shot if it is deeply grooved and worn thin. I might just need resurfacing. The calipers can get sticky, rusty and fouled, and could use some cleaning and inspection. Maybe new pads?

Your Honda workbook might have the specs for you to work from. If you must replace the rotors, you might consider taking this time, and some money and going for the brake upgrade, and maybe switchin to the 100 pcd as you will have to tear it all down to have bearings and a new rotor pressed in anyway. Time to think about this stuff.

(just when you thought it was safe to get back into your running car)

By Todd (63.52.20.248) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 06:28 pm:

Hey David,
How about fuel filters? You could get some symptoms like this with trash in your fuel. Also, the guy might be on to something with the accelerator pump. If it's not squirting properly, it will give a terrible hesitation.

By firrtree (64.40.52.133) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 09:01 pm:

Is your distributor worn out? Just a possibility.

By Emlyn (Emlyn) (216.226.193.3) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:01 pm:

David,

are you using an electric low pressure fuel pump with this carbie? I think that the standard mechanical pump might not supply enough fuel for this carbie. It could be starving under acceleration.

Change to a pointless distributor, hassle free.

By owen cousins (208.181.166.16) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:17 pm:

this message may not belong here, but you've been talking about carbs so here it goes...
i just added a 32/36 weber to my 1200, but the throttle cable is giving me problems: there cable doesnt move enough, when i push the gas pedal all the way down, the throttle on the carb can still open up a ways, the secondary barrel is only 1/2 to 3/4 open! how can i get the cable to open the throttle the whole way while still letting the throttle return to idle, could i saw off the large metal piece under the gas petal?

By david (208.130.245.161) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:27 pm:

tedshred, i was planning to do the accord wagon conversion. i need to track down some wagon spindles and rotors and have the rotors turned. then i need to find an accord caliper. any first gen, will work right? should i bother rebuilding them?

todd, the only fuel filter i know of is the one in the engine compartment. its a glass one and has been perfectly clean the whole time. is there another one? i will check under the car tomarrow. should probably just change the rest of the fuel lines. i only changed the ones in the engine compartment. how do i check to see if the accelerator pump is working correctly? i'll price one tomarrow.

firtree, i have replaced everything in the dizzy and the shaft has mabey 1\16" of play. seems alright. i am getting a perfect dizzy and good used petronix from don at the end of the month. he is also going to go thru everything with me. i hope i get it running good enough to drive it 250 miles to where he lives.
emlyn, the carb is a small one(dgv 28/30). i asssumed the fuel pump would be fine. how can i check your suspisions? would it run better either way?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:51 pm:

There's nothing wrong with the mechanical fuel pump *if it works* for standard or mildly worked engines. If the pump is in good condition, it's not delivering enough fuel if after several seconds at high revs (say >6000) it starts to cough and sputter. If the pump is worn (what usually happens is the diaphragm gets cracked) it could cause the symptoms you describe. A car will still drive with a pretty buggered pump, but not well.
You haven't mentioned changing the pump, so I'd do it.
A couple of other things to check:
Blocked or partially blocked fuel and breather lines. If your tank breather line is blocked it'll cause a vacuum in the tank and your fuel supply will drop to nearly zero.
Water in your fuel tank.

To see if your accelerator pump is working, pull off the air cleaner, look down the carbie barrel and pump the throttle. If you see a nice spray of fuel your accelerator pump is working.

By david (208.130.245.161) on Tuesday, April 03, 2001 - 10:56 pm:

adrian, i'll check on that stuff tomarrow. the fuel pump looks new. the part that the line goes on to is still shiny.

By Jacob (24.12.161.208) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 01:33 am:

At least yours runs, ours runs flintstone style.

By Emlyn (Emlyn) (216.226.193.3) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 03:33 am:

David,

as Adrian said the mechanical fuel pump will work quite well for most basic modifications on civs, but if it does turn out to be cactus I would get an electric one.
A lift pump or low pressure pump from a later model car in a junk yard would be a cheaper option to replacing the honda pump and will give you better flow.

By david (208.130.245.115) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:21 am:

what does low presure mean? how many psi? should i go box or cylander kind?

By david (208.130.245.115) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:25 am:

would it hurt anything to put that iso heet stuff in the tank if there turns out to be no water? can i check to see if the breather hoses are clogged or not by running the car with the cap off?

By david (208.130.246.201) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 01:29 pm:

the parts store has two cylander elecrtic pumps. one has a little more psi than the other(3-5, 5-9???). should i go for the weaker one or the stronger one.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:29 pm:

I don't think you'd want to run more than 5psi, probably less.

To check for vacuum in the fuel tank - run the engine for a some time, then take off the fuel cap. If there is a vacuum the breather is probably blocked. If there is pressure or no vacuum it should be ok. Also, try blowing down it.

And bugger it David, cylinder does not have an "a" in it! And have you ever heard of punctuation? (i.e. starting a sentence with a capital letter, using capitals for proper names (I not i, I'm not i'm etc.) etc.) You might try pressing that "Check Spelling!" button one of these days ... it might surprise you.

By david (206.98.121.201) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 05:54 pm:

I like the way cylinder looks better with an "a".
I know how to use correct puctuation, but it seems like waste of time to me. Espesially on this board, because i use it so much. Are you saying that my misuse of proper english creates a certain level of miscommunication or are you just bothered by it?
My tank does have quite a vacumn to it. Where are the breather lines located? What would be the best way to remedy my problem? I drove with the cap off a bit and the problem didn't change.
Also, when i try to time the engine, the timing marks bounce around about 5 degrees either way. Which makes it really hard to time perfect. Does this mean anything pertaining to my problem?

By chris (209.53.227.161) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:03 pm:

heY adriun dont you tink youer beeng a litle picky/ persunly Ive sene wurs

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:15 pm:

Are you saying that my misuse of proper english creates a certain level of miscommunication or are you just bothered by it? Both. I often have to read posts (not necessarily yours) several times to try and work out what the poster is trying to say. I also like to see things done properly (or at least a reasonable effort made to do them properly). I always hated english at school, but that's no reason not to use it reasonably correctly. There's enough shocking spelling/grammar used out there on the net without adding to it or forming bad habits by using it all the time. For some reason 99% of the perpetrators seem to be yanks (ignoring people who don't speak english as a first language, but I guess they probably fit into this category too ).

Now back to the real problem:

A vacuum in the tank doesn't sound good, but if it makes no difference then it's probably not really a big issue. The timing jumping around about 5 degrees is a problem. Is the idle steady or does the engine miss and the speed fluctuate a lot? The trouble is trying to work out if it's the dizzy causing the problem or something else causing the engine speed to change, thus changing the advance. Have you tried running it without the vacuum advance lines connected?

By Emlyn (Emlyn) (216.226.193.3) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:47 pm:

is that poster or postee?

By david (208.130.246.74) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:55 pm:

It idles fairly steady, acually. Just a slight flux. When i disconect the vacumn advance tubes, it doesn't change a thing. it used to. I tried driving it with the diconnected and the hesitation got a tad bit worse.
My mixture screw is 1 and 1/4 turns out. I checked the accelerator pump and it seems to quirt fine. The throttle opens completly, through the secondary valve, when the pedel is fully depressed.
Compression is 175 all around.
I have the second tube on the charcoal canister blocked off.
The bottom tube on the intake blocked off.
Top tube on the intake going to the bottom tube on the vacumn advance.
The only tube on the carb, which has a very strong suck, going to the top tube on the vacumn advance.
The two temp sensor tubes on the drivers side of the intake manifold are open.
I threw a bottle of iso-heet in today along with a bottle of this chevron fuel system cleaner and filled it with 92 octane gas.
Brand new stock coil.
Brand new plugs.
Two weeek old wires.
Brand new points and consenser(.020).
Cap and rotor look fine.
brand new, pressing in, torque rod bushings.(my god, i need to replace those long before i did)

i'm going to redo that last shops gasket stacking job with real weber gaskets and sealant until i can get the real adapter to manifold gasket and either get the studs pulled or have the tops cut off and re-taped.
if you need anymore info, i'll be checking back in an hour or 2.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 06:57 pm:

hehe . I know I don't get it right all the time (nobody's perfect), but it's nice to see a little effort made.
David was having a bit of a vent about his car so I decided to have a bit of a go at all the yanks out there (and a few Aussies, eh ROotUS ;)) who make me read their posts more than once to work out what they are trying to say. I'm sure I'll be thoroughly ignored, but it may make a difference for a day or two (if you buggers don't go out of your way to make it worse ).

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 07:14 pm:

When it comes to all those vacuum and emission hose, I have no idea. My cars have none of that stuff on them and Australian delivered cars also seemed to have a lot less in the way of emission control plumbing than US delivered cars.
The two temp sensor tubes on the drivers side of the intake manifold are open. What two temp sensor tubes? Our cars have a single temp sensor in the manifold, but no tubes. It's an electrical sensor that if I recall correctly has a yellow wire going to it.

By david (206.98.121.116) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 08:21 pm:

Its a brass thingy, that looks like you could unscrew it with a very large wrench. It has no wires going to it and like I said has two tubes coming out of it. I have a switch hooked up to my fan(i didn't do it), if that makes any difference.
i posted earlier that i was going down to where don lives, at the end of the month to get a known good dizzy, good used petronix ignition, and a recurve. He lives 250 miles away. I need to get it running good before i go, of course.
I am tring to sort out all this crap. I just sold my bus and am getting my body and paint done as part of the payment. I need to get a whole nose, drivers side rocker, seals, and dash. hes going to weld on the new front end, weld in a new rocker, fix any holes, make the body totally straight, and paint the entire thing, inside and out(think i'm going to go with an olive). This is a great deal!!!, but i'm bound to run into problems and money is very tight. I'd like to put on my RS header(ceramic coated,merge collector, 1 3/4 tube) before i get the dizzy recurved too. I want to get it running perfect before i have to pull the engine for the guy to do the work. I have no clue what weirdness i'm going to run into with all this.

By Emlyn (Emlyn) (216.226.193.3) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:01 pm:

David,

You would have mentioned before, but what year make is your civic and is it hondamatic or 4 speed?

By Emlyn (Emlyn) (216.226.193.3) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:20 pm:

The earler hondamatics had tempreture controlled ignition advance. This might be the brass thingy. Otherwise I am not sure what it is. Is it conected to the inlet manifold, or placed somewhere else?

If there is a leak under the carb with your gasket stack you will have bacfiring from the carbie and crappy running. So putting the proper gaskets in and getting a good seal is a good idea.

Also, are you certain that the leads correspond with the correct plugs. If two are mixed up it will still run, but really, really poorly. Sometimes mechanics get mixed up because Honda engines are numbered the correct way

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 09:34 pm:

It sounds to me as though someone has taken the thermo fan switch out of the bottom of a radiator and screwed it into the manifold in place of the normal temperature sender, which has a single terminal on it. What is your temp gauge hooked up to?

By david (206.98.121.204) on Wednesday, April 04, 2001 - 10:15 pm:

I have a '73 hatchback with a '79 cvcc 5 speed.

I have never looked where the temp. gauge is hooked up to. I'll do that tomarrow. I'll check the wires tonight.
I took the carb off tonight and i got all but one of the bolts off the adapter. the socket wouldn't fit in the last one. I just replaced the adapter to carb gasket and used some sealant. The gasket stacking was on the bottom, so i'm gonna track down a very thin line socket, if i can.
I really don't want to pay a shop $60 to pull or cut and tap those studs.

By Charles R. (64.170.157.222) on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 02:09 am:

Actually, that brass thing sounds like a temp controlled vacuum switch from a CVCC, very strange. If your vac lines are hooked up EXACTLY like you say, it sounds like (A) you have a dizzy from an automatic. AND (B) a part is missing. A solinoid valve, between the carb and the top half of the dizzy.


Your dizzy not only advances, it can retard the timing as well. The bottom tube on the dizzy is for the retarding and the top is for advance. The retard is just to make it idle better with automatics.

My suggestion at this point is very simple. Make sure you know were all the lines go, then disconnect them all and plug all the tubes in the manifold and carb.
Reset the timing, stock setting is 5 degrees advanced. I'd set it to 10 to make up for the lack of vacuum, but you don't have to. You might have to make slight changes to the carbs' idle and mixture settings.

The car should run smoothly now. At the very least, the timing marks should be steady. If it's not, something internal (distributer or gears) is wrong.
Now this isn't the BEST way to run your car. But it should run okay like this, IF(!) something else is not causing the problems.
The only problem with running it like this, is that you will not have enough advance capability for best performance. For now though, it's no big deal. We're just trying to get it to run smoothly. BTW, both my cars are running like this right now, and have for quite some time. Just because I'm lazy,and they run fine.

By ROotUS (203.34.130.131) on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 08:04 am:

eh! you be knockin me for my words? most of the time my advice probably isn't worth reading, so i keep my writing style relaxed. i guess it also represents me in a less mature light - being 18. not that i don't have respect for those reading my text, i wont be changing my style.
(also i commonly don't know the correct terms or something, so i describe_ this is where confusion would most likely come about)
but why are we even talking about grammar? this board about a common interest, not differences in communication. i would also like to make it clear that this isn't the beginning of a mudsling --> and that i am in no way offended by the post this is in reply to.

By david (208.130.245.231) on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 09:25 am:

charles r., i hooked up those vacumn lines in accordance to what someone told me on here. Yeah, i know the solenoid valve is missing. That was one of the reasons i got the weber. So i wouldn't have to buy one from honda for $45US. Am i going to have to get it now? Im going to diconnect the vacumn lines, like you said. I'll get back to you. I've been working like a dog, latey.

By Charles R. (64.170.157.203) on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 12:11 pm:

Nah, I yanked mine years ago. If you have your heart set on having one, I'm pretty sure it's still lying around here somewhere. Besides, it's for the auto's anyway.

I scanned a pic of the stock vacuum line routing, take a look.

I have a slightly larger version if you want me to email it.
But now that you've put on a different carb, most of this won't matter. Taking a look at how the lines are routed will give you an idea of how the setup is supposed to work though. All those lines at the manifold and carb base have what's called "manifold vacuum". This is different from "ported vacuum", which is what that top line (with the "tee")next to the throttle opener has. Real simply, The upper has a "switch" the lowers don't. At idle the lower lines will have vacuum. The upper one won't. The upper one gets vacuum when you open the throttle (step on the gas).
I'll give you an example of how this works, with the charcoal canister.
One line goes to the tank. This gives a path for the fumes from the tank to the canister. One line(the purge line) is the rest of the path from the canister to the engine. If the path were open all the time, the fumes would flow into the manifold even if the car was off (and into the air, results in poorer emissions). So it has a valve, a vacuum operated one. This requires the signal line. On these Hondas, it only see's vacuum to open the valve and let the fumes flow when the car is "off idle". This way it's easier to get a good, steady idle and still be able to suck up the fumes that accumulate.

So how can this help you? This should help you start to see how system works. You should see, that if you hook up the two dizzy lines to "manifold vacuum" (no matter what tube it comes from, up on the carb or not), it won't work. If you just hook up the advance(top of dizzy) line to manifold vac, it will work, but not quite how Honda wanted it to. If you just hook up the bottom line, your dizzy will retard, but not advance properly. The solinoid valve just adds a temperature control to the advance side of the dizzy.

Like I said, I dumped the whole setup a long time ago.
I hope this helps a little.

By Charles R. (64.170.157.203) on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 12:27 pm:

Ok, that pic came out like crap.

By david (208.130.246.129) on Saturday, April 07, 2001 - 11:23 pm:

I have a honda shop manuel, which alrealy has a very easy to read vacumn map. That stuff about the the different type of vacumns really helps. charles tried to explain it to me, but he might of just assumed i knew all the the basic theory.
Also, my charcoal canister only has two lines, not three. Could the line going to the canister being mussed, be the cause of the vacumn in the tank. I'm still not sure how to fix that. I'm going to be taking it out when i get the body/paint work done next month. I can fiddle with it then.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 06:16 am:

You see some charcoal canisters with three vents, others with two. Honda seemed to change the design of the emission system from one year to the next. For example Australian '76 models have all kinds of solenoids, valves, one-way this, bleed that and goodness knows what else. Whereas '77 models have practically none of that. Just a vacuum line to the dizzy, charcoal canister and the hot air valve in the airbox.

I don't want to harp on about the spelling thing but this is really annoying:
vacuum does not have an "n" in it.
manual (pronounced manyll) does not have an "e" in it. Manuel would be pronounced manwell (like the waiter in Fawlty Towers) or manyouell (different pronunciation of the name), not a type of book.
Bugger it, I hated english at school, why am I trying to teach you lot how to use it more correctly????? Must be getting old or going batty ... or both.

By david (208.130.245.227) on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 04:17 pm:

Guess what, i pulled the top of my carb off to check the float, at the advice of a freind. The closed adjustment was about 4 mm too short. the cars runs so much better!! There still is a little hesitation here and there, but it acually accelerates the way its sopposed to. I hooked up the top vacumn advance tube to the carb and it ran a bit worse. I just blocked it off again.

I also noticed that my exhaust had gotten louder toward the front of the car. I checked it out and someone had patched up the pipe with a piece of metal and it is coming off in a few places. Would this have anything to do with my remaining problems? I am replacing the entire exhaust next month when i have to pull the engine.

By ROotUS (203.34.130.79) on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 06:53 pm:

how are carb floats adjusted? a carb i just whacked on my new motor shows the petrol window level to be below half. step by step instructions?

By david (208.130.246.112) on Sunday, April 08, 2001 - 11:59 pm:

i did a search and found the specs to be 41mm closed and 51mm open. Take the air filter off. Then take the 6 screws out og the top of the carb. Next you have to disconnect a peice of the choke linkage. its pretty self explanitory, theres a plastic slider thats on one end of a spring. You have to slide this plastic peice up, so that it can slip loose. Next take out the 6 screws on the top of the carb. Then pull the top off. you check the float valve by puting the entire top peice vertical, so the tab the hits the needle valve just touches slightly. bend this tabt with a flathead until it is 41mm from the top most part of the float to the top carb peice. then tip the whole thing to your right until the float stops. measure from the top of the float to the bottom of the top carb peice. bend the stopper tab thats at a 90 gregree angle from the needle valve tab to make the distance 51mm.

thats not explained very well, but you seem to know cars quite well.

oh yeah, my car was driving really good for about a mile, then started getting worse and worse. it got to the point where i could barely get it up to 25 or 30 mph with it poping and the shutters ansd shakes almost the whole time. then later in the nigght after driving it a bit it got better for a little while. then startec to get worse. i'm going to check my float valve adjustment job tomarrow. i used kinda a cheesy pocket tape measure. what's a more accurate way of measuring your float valve? just so you know, my timing is at 5 btdc, i have all my vacuun lines blocked off, my plugs are gapped and cleaned.

adrian, sorry for not using capitols, but I'm tired and late. I have been making an effort. Give me that.

By Charles R. (64.170.157.211) on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 12:49 am:

Have you checked the valve lash (clearance) on this car yet?

By david (208.130.241.166) on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 09:55 am:

No, could the valves being out of adjustment, be causing my problems?

By Todd (63.52.4.76) on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 11:48 am:

When you get the motor out, have someone qualified look at the head. I'm afraid, that due to the intermittent nature of your problem, you might have valve guide problems.

By david (208.130.245.83) on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 12:34 pm:

OK. I am going to rule out as much as possible, first. I'm going to get the intake studs cut and put the real gaskets on, a low pressure electric fuel pump, and get a good dizzy and petronix ignition kit. We'll see what happens after that. I was planning on getting the exhaust ports matched to the header anyways. What else should i do to it while its out? I just hope it'll drive for the next month.

By Charles R. (64.170.157.223) on Monday, April 09, 2001 - 10:18 pm:

Check the valve lash before you buy anything. The problems you are describing could be due to not having enough gap. In fact, if this were a Bug, I'd say "definately".
Besides, Checking the clearance is free (if you already have feeler guages) and I always try the cheap fix first.

By david (208.130.245.68) on Tuesday, April 10, 2001 - 02:21 pm:

ok. i'll do that first thing tomarrow.

By david (208.130.246.161) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:21 am:

I can't find my book with the firing order. I think mine is the 1-2-3-4 order. I took the valve cover off. Then i brought the crank to TDC. I adjusted what i think is one(the 2 nearest to the dizzy), but when i went to do 2 on the intake and 3 on the exhaust, it seems i had to take out the screws way too much. Any help or run down would be great. once i get a little info it'll take no time to finish this up and rule one more thing out.
david

By david (208.130.240.5) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 01:51 pm:

i talked to a place and they said that honda has used the 1-3-4-2 order for a long time. i gauged the valves to that, but when i tried to turn it over it just stopped very violently. i'm going to try 1-2-3-4.

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 02:04 pm:

Firing order is 1,3,4,2

By david (208.130.246.188) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 02:31 pm:

ok. you have to turn the crank 360 degrees from tdc to do the other half of the adjustments. how do you know which is sopposed to be the first half and which the second. i've turned it multiple times.

By david (206.98.121.59) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 03:28 pm:

I adjusted all the valves on the first half and everything seemed fine. Then i rotated the crank 360 degrees from TDC. All the valves seemed to adjust fine except no.4 on the intake side. It's adjusting screw is way father out than the rest. I turned the car over for a second and it started up. It did have a lower sound than usual.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 04:39 pm:

Why are you going on about firing order and valve adjustment?

Just look at the cam and the rocker arms. For each rocker, turn the engine over till the rocker pad on the cam is opposite the lobe (lobe pointing down), then adjust the clearance. One advantage of an OHC engine ... no need to worry about tdc, counting valves to see which are fully open etc.

When you say the one adjusting screw is "further out", do you mean screwed into the rocker more or less than the others?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 04:46 pm:

Oh yeah, it makes no difference whatsoever which order you adjust the valves in. They just need to be adjusted to the right clearance. I usually just start at one end and work my way to the other, then do it again to double check.

By david (208.130.246.158) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 04:46 pm:

Less. You can see more threads.

By david (208.130.246.25) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 10:48 pm:

I finally got the valves adjusted fine. It didn't change much except for the fact it sounds more healthy at idle.

Thank you for all your help. I think, though, i'm relying on this board a bit much. From now on i am only going to post the really important questions after some thought and homework is already done. Parts location, of coarse, too.

thank you for your time,
david

By Charles R. (64.170.157.195) on Wednesday, April 11, 2001 - 11:58 pm:

So it still coughs and backfires after it warms up?

By david (208.130.245.122) on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 10:03 am:

yes. I should mention that it always runs better after i put a bit of premium gas in it. Then slowly gets worse.

By paul krummenacker (12.145.208.12) on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 02:37 pm:

david... just had a thought, you might have a bunch of water in your tank, that might be leading to it running crappy after a while.

let's hook up and drain the tank completely and see what we find.
Paul

By david (208.130.241.156) on Thursday, April 12, 2001 - 02:43 pm:

sounds good.

By ROotUS (203.34.130.92) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 09:54 pm:

what size feeler guage do you use for adjusting the valves?