By ROotUS (203.23.169.201) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 02:57 am:

i just finished my car, have had everything to bits... and it didn't do it straight away, but now it crunches when i change down into second. once it is in second, i can take it out, and put it back in and it still crunches. not a problem from first to second though. it's like the clutch isn't working at all, i have to match the revs to get it in (without masses of crunch noise)
problem? solutions?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 06:50 am:

Problem - second gear syncro is stuffed.
Solution - replace it.

What oil are you running in the gearbox?
Is your clutch adjusted correctly?

By ROotUS (203.34.130.138) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 05:42 pm:

damn, hoping i wouldn't be told something like that. i got plenty of gearboxes, just that this one was already in the car, and i found it easier to slip the engine onto the gearbox.

i haven't touched the oil, it had some in it when i bought it, so i should probably check that eh! is it worth replacing oil in a g/box if you just have to rip in out anyway? ahh well, i kinda passed the roadworthy (including road test) and the mechanic didn't notice...

also this motor i just built has not much power, i haven't really tuned it much yet, but i never noticed bad tuning to steal so much from the top end of a 1200... you don't have to answer anything to the no power thing - i realise i just have to fix everything.

By ROotUS (203.34.130.138) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 05:42 pm:

damn, hoping i wouldn't be told something like that. i got plenty of gearboxes, just that this one was already in the car, and i found it easier to slip the engine onto the gearbox.

i haven't touched the oil, it had some in it when i bought it, so i should probably check that eh! is it worth replacing oil in a g/box if you just have to rip in out anyway? ahh well, i kinda passed the roadworthy (including road test) and the mechanic didn't notice...

also this motor i just built has not much power, i haven't really tuned it much yet, but i never noticed bad tuning to steal so much from the top end of a 1200... you don't have to answer anything to the no power thing - i realise i just have to fix everything.

By Nikolaj (213.197.5.191) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 11:33 pm:

How do you not change the transmission oil when chaniging the tranny with engine into your car?? There will still be a little oil in it but not enough. If it was filled with oil it would have drained right out of the diff where the driveshafts go... So you may have to put some oil in there. But if the rest is working properly it should be the synchromesh ring, I've had the same with my first 5speed after about 2 months, and yes, it's a bummer! But it's logically the first thing to mess up, it's the one you use most for braking on the engine.....

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Tuesday, April 17, 2001 - 11:47 pm:

You didn't fill it up with oil?? The tiny bit that will be in there will not be doing a lot. The gearbox takes around 2 litres. Fill it up.

By ROotUS (203.34.130.172) on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 06:56 am:

arm, i checked it, and it still seemed to have oil in it. when i swapped the motor, i managed to do it without taking off any driveshafts or anything! so no oil came out then. though for roadworthy i had to change one, and i did but i don't think i lost any/much oil. i have put a little more in since. i drove it today again, it doesn't do it all the time, is it possible i haven't assembled the clutch right (works all other gears fine).
is it bad to 'overfill' the gearbox?
thanks all for your help. will be getting the car registered in 10 hours (10am)

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 07:17 am:

You haven't mentioned what gearbox it is (or you have somewhere else and I've forgotten). The 4-speed has a dipstick. Later 5-speeds have a filler hole above the right hand drive shaft. Fill it till oil starts to dribble out the hole.
I'm not really sure what the consequences of overfilling the gearbox might be. I would assume it won't hurt it too much, but you may develop leaks.
Doesn't sound like clutch to me. Drain it and put in new oil (10/40 engine oil is about what you want). You could use the Honda gearbox oil (it's 10/30 I think) and it's only $5 or $6 a litre, but I've found it to be a little thin for the old boxes, especially when they are a bit worn.

By M&M (209.53.204.30) on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 11:54 am:

Where is the dipstick for the gearbox?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 04:47 pm:

In a 4-speed there is a screw on filler cap on the end cover under the battery. It has a dipstick.
The earlier 5-speeds (with the two piece end cover) also have a filler cap on the end cover but with no dipstick (5th gear is in the way). The later 5-speeds with the single piece end cover have no filler on the end cap, it's a bolt half way up the diff housing.

By Nikolaj (213.197.4.161) on Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 11:37 pm:

If you were able to change a shaft without oil leaking out, then you needed not a bit more, but a lot more. I'd check the oil first, it would be a kind of stupid way to mess up the gearbox...

By ROotUS (203.34.130.126) on Friday, April 20, 2001 - 08:16 am:

heh, well i have put all the oil i had left in there... oil sits in all three steps in on the dipstick... but i'm used to driving with the box now anyway. just when going into second, push up a little first, as if going to first gear - then down into second. i was kinda hoping that i wouldn't learn how to drive this gearbox and not just replace it... oh well. i will change it next time i do something big.
thanks for all the advice. it is a 4 spd btw.

By Anonymous (24.115.111.80) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 03:23 pm:

when u change the oil on the four speed, where is the plug to drain it?

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Saturday, April 21, 2001 - 05:50 pm:

The drain plug is at the bottom. Some maunuals have a picture that shows the drain plug as one of the bolts holding a detent ball in, it's wrong.
If you look from the right side at the very bottom, facing sideways, is a large bolt, that's it.

By John S. (207.160.161.165) on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 09:29 am:

I'm going to assume you guys were talking about 1st Gen 5-speeds ...2nd crunch was typical on well worn in boxes.
My question, to Adrian, or any one else who might know the answer, How much of the 1st gen tranny internals are compatible with the 2nd Gen boxes?
I've got several 4-speeds which I know to be good ones, and I don't want to throw anything out if I can use components to fix a couple of broken 2nd Gen 5-speeds I'm keeping in reserve.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 05:50 pm:

The synchros are the same. Depending on which EN box it is, some or all of the gears are the same (except fifth of course). From memory a lot of the shift mechanism (shift forks and the like) is the same. The input and output shafts are of course different.

By Dave Wilce (203.98.21.42) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 05:21 am:

I have always had been a 2nd Gen 5spdbox in my EB3 rally car. The diff is stuffed so I'm about to fit a new box. I want to go back to a 1st Gen 4spd to get the 4.9:1 final drive (we didn't get the 1st Gen 5spd in New Zealand)As I'm currently doing 100mph @ 6800rpm in 3rd with my current gearing, I can live without the 5th gear to get the lower final drive. Can anyone tell me the rev drop between gears in the 4spd? Mainly 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. The drop in the 2nd Gen box is too high.
I am having trouble finding a 4spd in NZ as most of the 1st Gen Civics were Hondamatic here and the rest are long gone.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 05:56 am:

Here's a speed vs RPM graph for a standard 4-speed. It was calculated for 185/60/14 tyres. If you let me know what you are using I can generate one for your tyre size (It won't be hugely different though).

By Dave Wilce (202.154.157.7) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 01:47 pm:

Awesome! Thanks. It's not that different than the 5spd I am replacing that had the 4.6:1 final drive. The last 5spd I had a 4.2:1 final drive and had a 3000rpm drop from 2nd to 3rd, just dropping it off my cam.I can live with that.
I normaly run 155/70x13 rally tyres and 175/60/13 tarmac tyres.
The 175/60x13's seem to put me 10kmph over speedo reading (130kmph when the speedo reads 120) I have had the speedo needle pointing straight down, which would be over 200kmph if you measure from the last mark on the speedo (160kmph) I don't know what revs I was doing, but hooked 5th while pulling 7000 in 4th. I had a sick diff at the time and was just hoping it wouldn't let go at that speed. Not long after that I was getting it airborne over humps (air for 2-3 sec at a time) and the diff lasted till the end of the rally! It deserves retirment.

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Monday, May 28, 2001 - 05:20 pm:

ok, here you go:

By Dave Wilce (203.98.21.42) on Tuesday, May 29, 2001 - 04:38 am:

Wow, that's a whole gear better than I have currently. On my 155/70x13 rally tyres I am doing 120kmh at 7000rpm in 2nd gear. By your graph I'd be doing that in 3rd.
Awesome, now I really want that 4spd!
Thanks Adrian, for the time and effort that you put into these graphs. They are much more than I expected when I asked the question.