By Eric Bauer (63.199.115.252) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 03:16 pm:

I consider myself mechanically pretty able.
BUT I can't get this darn car to start so here's the story. Especially frustrating when it looks as good as it does - everything is brand new on it.


1973 Civic.
Brand new 12V 300A battery (I put a voltmeter to it and it does have 12V), brand new battery cables, good proper ground, brand new Honda starter, new cap/rotor on a 80+ electrical distributor (no points!), new matching external ignition coil.

I have power to lights/horns/etc.
All fuses are a-ok, including the main one underneath the hood.

It has 6gal of 100oct in the fuel tank.
All ground straps for transmission housing and valve cover are in place.

But when I turn the ignition switch all I get is a loud "click" sound. The starter doesn't even try to start the car. The engine will manually turn over but that's it.

Replacing the points distributor with the electrical one seemed like a straightforward affair but perhaps I made a mistake there? Can someone explicitly walk me through that conversion just to make sure I did it right.

Does anyone have any other ideas???

By Charles (137.219.16.107) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 04:11 pm:

Hey Eric,

The coil should not affect the turning over of the car.

On the starter do you have a really nice large gauge cable with permanent power from the battery?

Expose some bare metal under each of your body earth points.

Finally just because the battery has 12V doesn't mean it is fully charged. I would suggest putting it on charge overnight or a quick charge. especially if it has been sitting about for a while. A fully charged battery will often read about 13.2V but voltage alone is not a good indicator of charge. Whack on a set of jumper cables to one of your other cars.

Clean the terminals and new battery cable fittings (sometimes the battery terminals have a protective coating on them).

As you are getting the click you are getting power to starter but then it is arcing out (same thing happens when you try to jump start with crappy jumping cables. When you hit the starter motor and you get the click dob the dash warning lights go dim?

Make sure there is an earth strap on the trans.

One final point, is the starter the correct one for the car (usually all early honda starters will work). Try pulling out the 2 starter bolts and make sure the starter turns when you give the key a hit.

It is always a pain when you anxiously await the fire up of a fully prepared car and something small happens like this.

By Eric Bauer (63.199.115.252) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 09:11 pm:

Hi Charles,

The cable on the starter is Honda OEM both for the starter itself and the solenoid.

The negative of the battery is actually attached to one of the Honda OEM chassis grounds.

I hve tried both jump starting the car with a rental car (I own no other car than the orange kabocha) & have had the battery charged all to no avail.

No protective coating on the battery terminals or battery cable ends (copper lugs)

Yes i believe you re right in that it is arcing. Instrument cluster not currently plugged in but I can try with it in the car easily enough.

There is a 4gauge ground strap on the trans attached at the OEM location. I can change the place where it bols to the body sure no problem there.

The starter is a 1973 starter for a 1973 Civic. I can pull it out as you say and try that too.

You're telling me - I have been walking and have owned the car for some 18months now - it has so far never run. I am getting tired of being reduced to a pedestrian and doing the 4mile commute (1hr by foot) everyday twice a day.

Thanks for the help Charles.

-e

By Charles R. (64.170.157.179) on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 11:49 pm:

Make sure you maintain some sort of ground for the starter when you pull it out. Turns freely by hand(accounting for compression)? If your instrument cluster isn't hooked up, what else isn't?

It's possible you have a defective starter. Don't rule it out just because it's new.

I would test it like this; once I'm sure i have a charged battery, I'd disconnect the solinoid wire from the starter. Then I'd take a 16 guage(or so) wire and jump it from the battery positive, directly to the solinoid. This way I'm eliminating any possible wiring glitches. If the starter still doesn't work, hunt for a replacement. If it does, hunt for a wiring problem.
Does Honda ship starters with any kind of clamp or lock to keep the drive gear stationary while it's in the warehouse? I was prevented from installing a VW tie-rod by a shipping cover that sure looked like a boot to me. Imagine how goofy I felt when a more experienced mechanic pulled the cover off to reveal the real, rubber boot.

By Todd (63.52.3.250) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 04:31 am:

Hey Eric,
How much compression does this motor have? You might want to go with a 2nd gen gear reduction starter. My race car won't turn over without one of those because of the compression.

By Anonymous (12.91.127.85) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 02:14 pm:

Hi Eric.

I've got quick version and a long version. Take your starter to your local auto parts store and have them tested for FREE. If they come out good, suspect bad wire contacts. Bad electrical contacts account for 90% of the electrical repairs. Battery acid can cause connection-eating corrosion all the way down the battery cable. Don't forget to look where the cable joins the battery connector/clamp.

I wanted add a few things about suggestions that were already made.
Earlier a suggestion was made to watch the panel lights while cranking the car. My suggestion is similar. However a simple volt meter or multimeter can do wonders when troubleshooting electronics. They can be bought at wallmart or k-mart for 20 bucks for a decent one.
My suggestion is to hook up a volt meter to the battery, then lay the voltmeter on the windshield so you can see it while you're in the car. Write down the battery voltage before starting. Try to start the car and monitor your battery voltage while starting. Then write down the voltage after starting. If power doesn't decrease much while starting then power isn't getting drained from the battery. If power is getting through the solenoid AND starter you should see a the voltage drop to around 10 volts while starting. If the power is only getting through the solenoid the voltage will only drop a small amount.

You can repeat this test directly on the starter terminal. If your readings are different by more than 1 volt, then you have a dirty wires and the power of the battery can't get through the dirty wires. 12 volts can be stopped by almost anything. Car batteries have a an ability to deliver large amounts of amperage(flow)but the flow stops easily once there's a dirty connection, because 12 volts isn't enough voltage to push through the corrosion.

If the starter or solenoid is to blame, you can fix it! They are usually very easy to take apart. Besides, if it was tested as Bad, then you have nothing to loose. Chances are, the solenoid has dirty/worn contacts or the brushes in the motor are dirty or worn.

Ok. I'll shut up now.
Darrell DeChon
www.geocities.com/ddechon

By Anonymous (208.60.186.92) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 07:42 pm:

Check the fuses on the terminal block behind the battery. They are delicate, you may have broken one during an engine swap or something. My car had a similar problem after an auto to manual swap, and it was the neutral safety switch. It is a sliding switch that attached to the auto shift lever that kept the car from starting in gear. If your car has that, either unplug it above the fusebox and plug the two ends of the harness together, or just slide it into the "park" position.

By Eric Bauer (63.199.115.252) on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 09:58 pm:

Thanks All I'll try what you recommended tomorrow if I can find a spare moment.

Todd to answer your question: It has forged Venolia pistons in there with a 1300 crank and rods so. These are the Goldwing knockoffs that King used to sell. So compression IS up there.

-e