Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Look at this	6		12/02 03:24pm

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 06:46 pm:

Well this isnt really about first generation hondas, I think 1983 is second for accord and civic but anyway..I just got myself a 1983 accord with very low mileage and in almost new condition. But, I expected it to have an EK1 in it. Well it turns out it still has my old friend the EL, which was in my last accord (79). I thought they were supposed to have EK1 after 78! Why does canada have these small motors? And, EK1 is cvcc right? How does the power compare between EL and EK1? Also, I still cannot find a header for this motor, does anyone know where to get one for a canadian EL?

By Anonymous (24.67.176.212) on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 07:33 pm:

EL has more hp and torque!EK gets better fuel economy!82-83 EL are actually 1602cc and valve order is EIEIIEIE.79-81 EL are 1600cc and valve order is IEEIIEEI.76-78 1600cc are identified EG

By Charles (152.91.9.15) on Wednesday, July 11, 2001 - 08:12 pm:

Japanese cvcc EKs are better than both with great fuel economy and close to 100hp. Go and see if there are any low Km import motors around your area.

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Friday, July 13, 2001 - 05:46 pm:

I don't think I need a brand new motor, this one is in great shape. Damnit, already something has gone wrong with it, I need a clutch. Rumbles when I put it in gear sometimes. What I really want for this car is a freakin header. Anyone help me out with a header for a canadian 1983 EL motor? It must be made for the canadian one right, cause they have different heads? Also , since I have access to a machine shop/machinist, would valve grinds and what have you make much of a difference in this car?

By Anonymous (208.60.186.10) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 09:36 am:

Do any of you have any tips as to building up EK/EL series motors? What benefit can I get by swapping heds/bottom ends, porting/skimming heds, bigger valves, etc. Would a weber dgv, lopey cam, and a non cvcc hed be a good start?

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 02:56 pm:

yeah, that's what I would like to know....

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 05:29 pm:

Two things, it can be:
Thing 1) very exciting
Thing 2) very frustrating

I have been looking for a non cvcc head to mate with my US1751cc EK1 block. I don't think that there is such a beast. So... I did find a non cvcc EL1 head that will mate with the US1601cc EF1 (also the US1488cc ED3/4) I was lucky enough to find an intake manifold for a single side draft weber, that will work with the Canadian head. You can get a header from S&S headers in Arizona, with the correct port spacing for the Canadian head. For some reason they say that the Header will not work with the Canadian head? I Don't know?
Shadbolt cams in Vancouver BC has the cam. All this will benifit my '76 Wagon.

The later Canadian EL1 head will mate with the later 82-83 US EK1, but I have not been able to locate a header for that head. I have 2 of these heads!

I think that the Australian non cvcc EG1 1600 head will mate with the early US 79-81 EK1 1751 block. That would be cool, if only I could confirm that.
It took me a few years to collect these parts and this info.
It seems as though nothing is easy, but that's half the fun. I think it's a "Guy" thing to be the only kid on the block with that special toy!

By horgon (24.77.176.186) on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 09:16 pm:

I am sort of confused...Is there a header that will work on a canadian EL motor, 1983 if so where can i get it

By Anonymous (168.30.216.134) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 10:03 am:

What about the 1500 cvcc hed on the 1600 block, or the 1600 accord head on the 1751 block? Can the heads interchange between the U.S. spec cvcc engines? I'm not worried about a eader yet, I just want a motor that has some cods..... Lots of torque, yet high revs.

By Awh (24.77.176.186) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 08:15 pm:

nobody cares about 1600s, it seems....

By Paul Krummenacker (216.26.39.192) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 09:44 pm:

Rats, Quikrick thats a bummer that you've yet to find a Non CVCC head that mounts to a US EK1 block. I just pulled the head off my '79 EK1 motor, no wonder the car was abandoned... the lobe for #4 cyl is almost totally flat, the cooling system is filled with what looks like little pieces of rusty cottage cheese, and there was water in #2 & #3 cyls, the pistons are currently frozen. looks to me like the car blew a headgasket and then locked itself up. the bores look fairly good (once you look past the rust spots from where the pistons and water have been sitting. I have a Cannon intake manifold too (one that takes a DCOE carb) I really want to find a head that I can mount this to and then rebuild this EK1 into something with more pep. If these motors didn't have the CVCC system, you could plop on a Weber DGV or some other downdraft carb, but with the CVCC system, I don't see any options other than running the stock carb, bleah! so Rick, what should we be looking for with our EK1 blocks, and cannon weber intakes? I might just have to drive to Canada later this summer and hit the yards. Anybody in Oz on Nz want to ship us some heads that would work on an EK1 block?!?, Pretty Please!!

By Anonymous (216.26.39.192) on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 09:44 pm:

I really did put in spaces and returns, just the board doesn't show them, sorry it's hard to read. Paul

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 04:16 pm:

ahhhh where are you guys getting these intakes and weber carburators from???? i have only found one place in australia to get one for my EL, and i don't want to pay for the shipping from there..

By Paul Krummenacker (216.26.39.192) on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 06:31 pm:

I got mine off ebay, think that is where Rick got his, right? is anybody else having problems seeing the listing of messages like it normally should be?

By Anonymous (24.4.254.120) on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 08:37 pm:

Yes, I need to hit the "Text Only" button to have the Last Day search to work.

By Bill (24.166.159.72) on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 09:06 pm:

Same here Dr. Zoom's site is messed up too!

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 07:26 am:

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By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 05:38 pm:

ok this is extremely frustrating....does anyone know if weber has an official site? i can't find one..and all i could find was a dumb weber downdraft carb in australia. Shipping charges would be a nightmare. Maybe i should have gotten a civic!! Also, i keep hearing about Shadbolt cams, but their site is not there anymore. Are they still around? Can they make a cam for any honda?

By barry mcf (165.228.129.12) on Wednesday, July 25, 2001 - 07:15 pm:

Try http://www.webercarburetors.com/

By errol (64.12.106.52) on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 10:09 pm:

Rick, that head and carbs you sent me bolted directly on my ek1 block! (I still havn't found the time to get it running though. lost some small parts)and the cam from shadbolt looked good I just need to pop the plugs out of the end of the main rocker shaft and clean it somehow. I've been messing with flywheels and it looks like a 84-87 civic one will mate to a 80-81 accord crank so one can still use the 'small bellhousing' tranny. .....Paul, I hopped one up a few years back and was very happy. A 81 ek block bored 25 over, 4-exhaust port US head (very ported!)w/good valve job and shaved 25 thou. new stock cam and stock 81 carb (probably the only honda carb that i didn't have to mess with!!) and bolted to a 78 accord w/stock tranny and beat the pants off of several new at the time integra's and 'SI' cars I should've never sold it!! sorry for the long post

By Paul Krummenacker (12.145.208.11) on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 02:56 pm:

Hmmmm... very interesting Errol. as I start tearing into my '79 EK1 motor I'm starting to think that I'll have to bore it out. how different is the '79 block from an '81 block? If it is interchangable, I'll bore this block out, get an '81 4 port head and massage it as you describe, new cam, polish up the intake nice and smoothe, make/find a header, and with my freshly rebuilt '79 carb slap it all together.

anybody see any problems with using a '79 carb? there is a bit less emissions hoze nightmare to deal with, plus I have a rebuild kit for a '79 carb and a spare '79 carb.

I'm racing on Sunday, hopefully I can get more traction this race. last race was a skating rink of mud, I threw lots of mud, but didn't get enough forward momemtum.

I like this thread, let's keep brainstorming

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 06:26 pm:

I cannot find anything for this damn canadian accord motor!!!! I emailed webercarburators.com and they don't even have a listing for it. There must be something out there, they have the same motor in Australia , I think, and they have tons of good stuff down there don't they?? what I'm looking for is a HEADER and sidedraft carb.

By errol (64.12.106.52) on Friday, July 27, 2001 - 10:41 pm:

Horgon, S&S headers said that they can still make one up but i think it's around 185.00 and for the intake, you'll just have to keep looking....sorry but they're out there somewhere.. now this motor that i built up with the canadian 1602 head has a noticably smaller combustion chamber than the US 1751 EK and where the aux valve would be is bubbled out slightly into the chamber also. I didn't take the time to see if the valves were the same though. (i know i know....) But i think i should be around 150 HP with this set up I know it wouldn't compare with a V-tech but it still should have gobbs of torque. Easy to spin 15" tires. If i can 'shrink' these pics down I can post them

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 08:42 am:

Check out this bad boy. The head is a early EL1 Canadian non CVCC (thanks Lawrence). The intake manifold is manufactured by Lynx, I got it on Ebay.

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Tuesday, July 31, 2001 - 08:48 pm:

someone made something for an EL motor????

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 07:25 am:

Horgon, this manifold was brand new when I got it, but I'm sure that it was "New old stock" and hasn't been manufactured in a long long time. If you are serious, Pierce Manifolds in California could get what you need. But it might cost you a pretty penny. They know were this stuff is hiding. They said that they could get me a dual weber manifold from Japan. email me if you want the number for Pierce.
I also have a bunch of pics of the head and different views of the manifold, but I don't want to use up too much space here.

By kenche (130.212.252.7) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 11:14 am:

So Rick is the manifolds set up for the dual side draft weber?

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 11:37 am:

YUP, I sent them a manifold gasket and they took a few days but got back to me with a price and lead time. They said that it was manufactured in Japan by "Herada" (not sure of the spelling).

By Paul Krummenacker (12.145.208.11) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 01:16 pm:

Rick,
how does the compression chamber relief in the head fit up with the EK block. I.E. the piston in an EK is bigger than an EL (right?) so would that cause sealing problems with the headgasket?

do all the cooling and oil passages line up with the EK block? I hope so.

what are you going to do for linkages?

If we think this will mate up securely with the EK block, I'd love to get a hold of Lawrence and see if he could get me a head and cam. Or at least get me a lead on where I could find one in the Vancouver / Richmond BC area. I'll make a special trip up north just to get this.

thanks
Paul

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 02:08 pm:

OK, the EL1 head shown above is the 1600 and it will not mate up with the EK1. That head is going on a US EF1 1600. The bore on that block is 74mm. Surprisingly that head will also fit the 1488 ED3.
There is also a EL1 head for the 82-83 which will fit the late 82-83 1751 EK1... which has a 77mm bore. BUT! the bolt holes DO NOT line up with the early 79-81 EK1.
Confused yet?
I have some information that indicates that the EG1 1600 should fit the early 1751 EK1 with the 77mm bore. Still have not seen one (EG1) in the flesh!

By Jon (24.67.209.73) on Wednesday, August 01, 2001 - 10:05 pm:

I have a couple of el1's here on vancouver island not sure what year they are from but if you want anything off them gimme a shout

jearl31@hotmail.com

By mo field (24.69.255.204) on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 12:08 am:

my 78 1200 blew up yesterday ..
i want a bit of a rocket civic, but don't know what is best or do-able ..
it was suggested i get my hands on an 80-83 EN1 ..
i have a kickin' 5 speed already ..
where do i find parts?
seems almost impossible ..
thanks for any help ..
'stranded in canada'
mo

By John S. (216.89.129.88) on Thursday, August 02, 2001 - 12:16 am:

Jon,
Are they the same head as Rick posted above? If so I need the intake and exhaust manifolds from one of them. Also, for some reason my 1600 EL head came with a steel camcover, are yours steel or alloy?

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 06:09 pm:

could I use the crank for EK in my EL to stroke it?

By John S. (207.160.163.103) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 12:58 pm:

Horgon,
Is your block an earlier 74mm bore, or the later 77mm bore.

By Horgon (24.77.176.186) on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 06:00 pm:

ouum.....not sure, it's an 83, so i assume its later 77mm. not sure though.

By Jon (24.67.209.73) on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 01:57 am:

I'll take a look for ya John S. and get back to ya on the intake and exhaust manifolds

By Jon (24.67.209.73) on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 01:59 am:

Oh ya and i think i have both steel and alloy valve covers

By John S. (207.160.163.93) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 02:41 pm:

Jon, I can hardly wait to hear... (I need an intake at the very least, Thanks.

By dennis singley (65.101.1.172) on Saturday, September 15, 2001 - 08:38 pm:

anyone know what the EL1 made in hp stock? mine is out of an '82 accord (canadian).

By Hondahead (24.67.253.203) on Tuesday, September 18, 2001 - 08:35 pm:

I think 86hp

By Ramon (207.5.4.95) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 10:17 am:

Rick did you ever find a Canadian cylinder head for your 1751?? I also have a question? I have a rebuilt 1751 with the large flywheel bolt holes in the crank shaft and the cylinder head has only two exaust ports.I thought this crank is out of a later 82-83 1751 but then the old style head should not be able to bolt up right? I think I once read they used two differnt crank shafts for the older 80-81 1751's for the auto trans and maual trans, anybody else ever hear this? It is still sitting in the crate it came in. If you ever found a non cvcc head for it I would like to get one also.

By John S. (207.160.163.88) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 12:18 pm:

Both cranks fit all EK-EL blocks. I'd guess theres been some cobblers at work uder your hood in the past.

By Ramon (207.5.4.95) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:02 pm:

This is a brand new motor still in the crate and the 82-83 1751 crank has a larger lip that the older honda flywheels don't fit over without some machineing done.

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:16 pm:

Ramon, I still don't have a good early head for my 79 EK1. But I do have a good Canadian head that will fit right on to your 82-83 block. Would you like to come over and take a look at it?

By Ramon (207.5.4.95) on Tuesday, November 27, 2001 - 01:25 pm:

Ok just got off the phone with a Honda parts dealer and there where two different crankshafts in the 1751 for the year 1980 only. the difference is the size of the flywheel mounting bolts. They where larger for the auto flexplate. Also in 1980 two cylinder heads where available the 2 port and 4 port depanding if you had a auto or stick. In 1981 all cars got the 4 port head. It looks like when they rebuilt my motor they put the auto crankshaft in it. Oh well!!! Was there ever a 1751 before 1981 in Canada?

By errol (64.12.105.181) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 06:23 am:

What I've found Here in the US is that around mid 80's the EK crank whent to a flat larger flywheel with larger 17mm mounting bolts instead of the 14mm ones found in the earlier 1200-1751's
The later EK crank also needs the larger bellhousing type tranny (and you can't use that great 80 1300 EJ tranny unless you swap cranks back to the early one, but then you have to use the very small flywheel/clutch assy).
It seems Honda uses this later flange for most of the later cranks (until you get up in the larger displacement motors)

By dennis singley (65.101.0.18) on Wednesday, November 28, 2001 - 08:33 pm:

My EL-1 is the later type w/77mm pistons, it came with an AT flexplate. I had my machine shop open up the bolt holes & mounting area so my '80 1300 5- speed flywheel bolts up to the crank. The timing marks line up for TDC. Also the '80 1300 5-speed trans bolts up with no problem. If I have clutch problems later I can get a heavier duty one for a 3rd gen. Civic. I'm going stock for now. I tried to get S&S & Pacesetter (both local co.'s) to build me a header but neither are interested in the old school stuff. So at this point I have ported the stock cast exhaust manifold to a full 2" outlet & port matched the head side. It is a decent design & will have to do.I got a return call from Weber today about a carb. the guy told me none of their carbs would fit my non CVCC manifold because they had no adapter plates for them. I hung up on the idiot! Their website lists an application for a non CVCC early motor by the way.I can machine the intake to fit the carb if i need to. If anyone knows of a side draft set up, let me know! I will also be interested in an aluminum valve cover if one fits. Still waiting on rockers & springs from Canada so I can send this head out & get this beast running. You can get a cam reground at Webcam in Cali. They fixed my #4 flat lobe & put a wide powerband grind on it. I think it will work good with a torquey motor, light car & wide ratio trans.
I'm going crazy waiting on parts & I guess that is part of the fun of working on these, rather than the newer stuff. Thanks for letting me ramble. dennis

By John S. (207.160.161.161) on Thursday, November 29, 2001 - 10:17 am:

Dennis,
If you are going to use an '80 1300 5-speed, you do not have a "wide ratio" transmission. You need to look for either an '82-83 Wagon 5-sp...which has the same gearing as the origional 1st Gen 5-sp, or an 80-83 Civic 1500 5-sp (hatch or sedan), which is a little taller and would give you a nice gear spread. With the hopped up 1751 you are building, the 5-sp you currently have would be quick as hell (after 1st gear), but you will have a short top end ...high RPM highway cruise, and you will not be able to use 1st to much advantage as it will be to short, and you will have to be easy on the throttle off the line or you will be breaking your tires loose all the time. Trust me , your car will be faster with a slightly taller gearbox.

By dennis singley (65.101.1.125) on Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 06:49 am:

john, the trans i am using has a 0.655:1 5th gear, all the other 2nd gen trans have a 0.714:1 5th. i had no problems with highway cruising the 7 years i ran it with a 1500. also 1st gear is 2.916:1 as compared to 3.181:1 on the '82-'83's. my final gear ratio is 4.933:1. it see's mostly in town (phx- driving 80-85 mph freeways) use & i found that i was never more than 1 shift away if i needed to go. i also got a steady 30 mpg driving it like i was trying to get the v-tec to kick in!
for you old school guys thats 5000 rpm's & up. this trans has 223k on it & since i did't own the car the last 4 years & 45k i don't know exactly what shape it is in. it might not last long! i will definately rebuild it when the time comes.
as far as traction, i am running 195/50x15 nitto's so i don't think that will be a problem. if i wind up going to firebird a lot i can borrow some sticky tires from a racer friend. i don't do too many street burnouts anyway (too old). dennis