By JMS (144.59.13.2) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 07:28 am:

Another suspension question,
I am considering lowering my 78 civic. I would like to drop it on the ground but I hate to sacrifice so much ride comfort. How many inches can I go before it starts bouncing and bottoming out to bad? I would to go enough to achieve that desired look I like so much, I estimate 3in? Dobi performance sells a pair of springs lowered by one inch for $60 a pair. Should I cut mine, or purchase those and have them professionally compressed? Also can I use my stock shocks? I read about wet-konis, what is a "wet" shock? As always, thanx for the info. J. Stokes

By Don (209.181.52.88) on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 08:32 am:

If you lower the car by more than 1.5 you will have problems with bump steer and suspension geometry. Some of this can be fixed but it will take time and $. It sounds like you want the car to handle too? I would not go more than 1.5-2 if the car is going to be used as a daily driver.
The myth about using CVCC front springs, I purchased some 75 Cvcc wet casings and just for kicks had the springs (before I gave them to mr. Garbage can) tested for spring rate against the 78 1200 front spring in my parts car they the same spring. I would never use the stock spring rates with cut springs if I had any other choices and $$$.

I guess you need to figure out a budget then decide

If you have about $500-800 and a daily driver then this is what I would do.
Get some performance springs with a 1-1.5 drop (WhiteLine in Australia may be able to help if you have to go the 1.5) they usually are about 30% stiffer than stock and are fine for daily driving. Match them with some Kyb's for struts http://impactparts.com/ may be able to round some up for you. This way you don't have to mess with strut casings and you get a gas charged strut. then go rebuild the suspension with new bushings and check the ball joints tie rods etc.....
While your in there, if you in the USA go get the big brakes off a 77-79 CVCC wagon. Since you have a 78 it already has a bigger front sway bar than most of the early civics, at least the USA models do.
You have to think of the suspension as a whole and match it to the intended use and budget.
Its going to do no good to spend money on springs if you have 22 year old bushings and struts.
If you want to step up after this then a rear sway bar may be in order depending on you driving style.

This is not the way to set up a race only suspension. Your talking a much stiffer ride bearings instead of bushings (this conversion alone will eat up most of the street budget) camber caster plates that mount on top of the strut tower to get back a 1/4 -1/2" of travel, shortened strut casings to get back some more.
A coil over conversion. Etc, Etc..... And finally you must figure out the correction in geometry to get rid of most of the bumpsteer at a 2" drop. This will double or more the street budget.

There may be a set up in between but you will have to decide that one.

By JMS (144.59.13.2) on Monday, July 16, 2001 - 08:13 pm:

Don, thanx for the info. My car will be used as a daily driver, its mostly stock so right now I am focusing on appearance not performance. When my budget increases as time goes by I will consider the brake conversion and better performance upgrades. I think I will go with the 1.5 from Whiteline at about 70 US$ a pair. Now for the shocks, I emailed impact-parts and I am waitng to hear from them about the KYBs. From what I understand if I get Konis I must modifiy my casings? However these KYBs are hard to come by. Is it possible to use new stock shocks with these springs and what do you think they will feel like? I would also like to get the sway bars and a shock tower support bar where can I find these, any suggestions? Thanx again.
J. Stokes

By Don (209.181.52.41) on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 06:55 am:

Dont worry about the swaybars & the tower supports for now. You will get more flex out of the rubber bushings that the towers.

Koni's are useable but you must find some early casings.

For street use only, any quality gas strut will be OK. I like the way KYB valves their struts. More for performance than some of the other makes.

By Tim Harding (Timh) (63.161.30.134) on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 10:03 am:

Don, great suspension tips. Would you mind digging into the subject of fixing the geometry after dropping the suspension over two inches. I've already got the Konis and the opening strut housings with the wagon spring swap. When I get out of school in a year and have some money I plan on shortening the struts and adding Ground Control coilovers. In the "Honda Performance Handbook" there is a picture of one guy's fix for the bumpsteer problem. It's a little difficult to describe, but he raised the attachment point of the tie rod on the knuckle more than an inch with tube and a longer bolt to the tie rod. The situp looked a little unsafe to me. What are your suggestions? Don't worry too much about budget, just assume I want to do it "right".

By electricks (202.129.65.51) on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 06:37 pm:

can i ask what bump steer means? i had a honda lowerd very low, almost to the bump stops, and the only problem i found was that the negative camber didn't let me get much out of my 185 tyres (contact width would have been more like 145) until hard and fast cornering.

By Don (209.181.52.47) on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 06:38 pm:

I don't know just yet as my front and rear control arms are coming back from CA (spherical bearings), as we speak. Bump steer gauges are available and there are lots of books on the subject of correction. That heim joint and spacer is common in all forms of motorsport, no worries there. Unfortunately I can't do that in SCCA ITD/C. I will have to assemble the suspension and see what needs to be moved & if I am allowed to do it. If you want to wait I can tell you. So to JMS can you see why not to drop the car more than 1.5? All so without camber caster adjustment plates things really get messed up. WOW! NO MORE POPUPS, BUT I CAN'T SPACE MY POST APART ANYMORE FOR EASY READING. I'M GOING TO USE SMILES TO SPACE IT APART. NOPE SMILES DONT WORK EITHER.

By Don (209.181.52.47) on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 06:47 pm:

Bump steer is the amount of change in toe-in or toe-out as the suspension moves up or down. It is caused by different arcs (Tie rod wants to move in one path the ball joint in another) It can cause bigger handling problems than you gained by lowering the car (self steer). EL-- See the camber plate part above in regards to your tire problem.

By jms (144.59.13.2) on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 12:23 am:

Don, To answer your question-Yes, thanx again. I emailed KYB.com and they discontinued those shocks. ImpactParts.com has them listed but no one responded to my inquiry yet. It just so happens my family is only about 30 minutes away from them though. Ever heard of Catskill, NY that is where Mike Tyson grew up.