Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Drive Shaft Upgrades	2		08/14 07:58am

By Sash (Sash) (216.161.86.92) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:26 am:

Guys - I am replacing the stock EB3 motor in my 78 CVCC with a EK1 that I have luckly ended up with. The EB3 is blown and the EK1 is VERY strong. I am in the process of pulling the EK1 and have come across some question. 1) Can I pull this motor without removing the tranny? 2a) If not, how do I disconnect the tie rods or front drive lines, I really dont what they are, that connect to the tranny on both sides? 2b)How do I disconnect the shafts that look like they are connected to the manual stick? I am on way out the door to go get a book on my civic, but thought you guys could help! Thanks

By Anonymous (208.160.214.67) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 12:09 pm:

You have to remove both sides.. the hubs at the A-arm knuckles and pull away from car. Use a rod separator...
The book will go into more details..
Get a good socket set for leverage on tight boolts/nuts..
Air tools are great...

By Don (209.181.52.97) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 07:56 pm:

My favorite "separator" is a 2.5 lb sledge hammer. I'm not joking! The pickle fork type of tool ruins the joint and protective boot. Any good front end and alignment shop should be able to show you the proper technique. In short a short direct blow to the dense casting on the outside of the taper you are trying to loosen shocks the metal and causes the wedge between the two pieces to free. Don't pound on the nut/threads!

By Tim Harding (Timh) (63.161.30.61) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:33 pm:

I always just unbolt the inner side of the lower control arm. Undo one bolt per side and you can free the axles...

By Anonymous (24.67.176.212) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:55 pm:

The control arm pivot bolts are usally frozen to the bushing and don't come out easy.Sounds like you've been lucky Tim and not run in to this problem.I agree with Don,the pickle fork type suck!The best are the spreader type that you use with a socket driver.I got mine from Princess Auto for $35.It works great!Hey Sash I think it's best to pull the engine and tranny together.You can pull just the engine but it's not any easier or faster.

By Tim Harding (Timh) (63.161.30.233) on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 11:39 pm:

Hey, good point. Don't break those bolts off!

By Sash (Sash) (216.161.86.67) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 10:20 am:

I am unable to locate any bolts to loosen. Are they under the boot? Although I pulled that back and seem to find nothing as well. I guess I will have to go ask a local shop.

By Tim Harding (Timh) (63.161.30.197) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 11:19 am:

No, there's nothing under the axle boot to remove. You won't be taking apart the axles. See where the axles go into each side of the transmission? The axles literally slip into a hole on either side of the transmission. The other end of the axle slips into the steering knuckle. So what we're describing is the need to move the steering knuckle outward so you can slip the axles out of the transmission. Don's talking about seperating the ball joint from the steering knuckle. The ball joint is on the outward end of the lower control arm (the main suspension arm that runs from a cross member under the car to the steering knuckle). If you can free the knuckle from the control arm the knuckle can then be pulled outward, creating enough slack to yank the axle out of the transmission. This might all seem confusing now, but my best advise to you is to look at a manual and then spend a lot of time on your back under the car. Pretty soon you'll be talking about ball joints and control arms with the best of them! Good luck.

By Sash (Sash) (216.161.83.117) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 04:03 pm:

Thanks TIm - I will be spending my morning tomorrow on my back.

By 2low2go (207.107.254.248) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 07:48 pm:

Sash, that's what most guys want to hear!! LOL

Justin

By Anonymous (208.60.186.174) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 08:32 pm:

Hey Tim, if youre just taking out the bolt that holds the control arm to the frame, then you don't have to take any of the other stuff off? In theory you could use this method without even taking off the wheels?

By Tim Harding (Timh) (63.161.30.163) on Saturday, August 11, 2001 - 10:40 pm:

Yes, those are the bolts. Hmm... I'm trying to remember if that's all I had to do. I've used this method a couple times recently on my car that I'm doing an engine swap on. Come to think if it, I don't have a front cross member or the two radius rods on. Having the radius rods in will likely prevent you from using this method. I've got a bunch of manuals for my car, and one suggested doing it this way. If your car isn't taken apart I now see that separating the ball joint might be a better idea. A proper tool or Don's method sounds good (Not that a 2.5 pound hammer can't be a proper tool ).

By errol (152.163.213.52) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 07:38 am:

Hey sash, whatcha gonna do with the old motor?

By Sash (Sash) (207.225.86.96) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 10:21 am:

Well now I am lost. I read my manual(haynes) and it was very vague. It said to hit the knuckle outward, but yet you have to know what the knuckle is. Justin, that is what I am always trying to tell my wife....mornings are better! The EB3 motor knocks heavily and blows white smoke. My 78 CVCC is going to be my wifes daily driver. I am getting the bug from this to get another when finished for myself. Therefore I might keep it to rebuild. Errol where are you? I might even just say come and get it. Dont know yet. I am interested in this control arm bolt theory. Tomorrow will be the day.

By Anonymous (24.67.176.212) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 02:29 pm:

Hey Sash I have done many Honda engine swaps using both methods mentioned. I will try to outline both methods for you,here goes.As I said above I think it's best to pull the engine and tranny together.(I also recommend using the balljoint separation method over the control arm pivot bolt method)Place the car on jack stands and remove the wheels.Remove the tranny drain plug and drain the fluid. Replace the plug. (balljoint method)Remove the cotter pins from the tierod ends and balljoints.Remove the castle nuts and using the spreader type balljoint tool separate the tierods and balljoints from the knuckle.If you don't have a balljoint tool don't remove the castle nuts.Instead,loosen them until flush with the stud.Then, for the tierods place 15mm socket on the nut/stud and rap with a hammer now remove the castle nut and free the tierod from the knuckle.For the balljoints rap the knuckle (around the joint) with a hammer several times.Now using a sturdy crowbar or equal pry down between the nut/stud and the knuckle.The balljoint should now pop free. Remove the castle nut and remove the ball joint from the knuckle by pulling up and out on the knuckle/strut assembly and pushing down on the control arm.Using a large flat screwdriver pry the axles out of the tranny. (control arm pivot bolt method)Remove the radius rods(mark them for correct reinstallation)Remove the control arm pivot bolts.(Not always easy as these bolts have a tendency to rust to the bushing)Now pry the axles from the tranny.That's it!I hope this info helps.Good Luck!

By Andrew Fatseas (203.102.206.3) on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 05:17 pm:

Sash, DO NOT bash on the tie rod end castle nut. The chances of damaging the nut, the thread and/or the tie rod aren't worth it. Look higher up in this thread for advice about belting the knuckle where the tie rod goes through. My technique is to use two hammers, one either side of the lumpy metal bit that the tie rod goes through. If you time it right with both hammers, the tie rod will just pop straight out. Same goes for the lower control arm/knuckle joint.

By errol (205.188.200.166) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 07:49 am:

I've just used a 'pickle fork (---<) Sorry best i could do) and just get new 'boots' from an auto parts store. And you're done in about 15min/side. The originals are usually nasty anyhow. I like to put tape on the threads of the tie rod just incase it gets spun around and you won't have to 'allign' it after.... Now there is only 4 attachment points, tie rod end w/14mm nut---lower balljoin w/17mm nut---bottom of strut 14mm nut---and axle itself. My problems have always been with that 32mm nut on the end. (but i don't seem to have a proplem with just taking the strut and tierod out and the axle nut and it gives me enough room to wiggle the axle out,..don't forget to drain the tranny oil first)

By Sash (Sash) (216.161.86.229) on Monday, August 13, 2001 - 03:04 pm:

Guys - Thanks for the help!!! I figured it out this morning by removing 3 bolts. 1) loosen the front strut nut 2) removed the steering rod thing from the wheel assembly thing 3) remove the control arm bolt. Then hanked, it came right out. The EK1 is sitting on the bench. THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!!! Now to seperate the tranny and pull the EB3 in the CVCC.

By errol (152.163.213.62) on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 07:52 am:

Don't forget about the bolt that always kills people,, It's on the backside of the engine that goes from the engine->tranny (near the Identifying pad on the (ear?) of the engine block) Unless u pull the engine and tranny all together OH and some of the starter bolts hold the engine also. Keep us posted

By Sash (Sash) (207.225.87.236) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 09:48 pm:

I dont think I removed the linkage from the shifter to the tranny correctly. What is the correct way to remove it, the one without the 10mm bolt holding it to the tranny. But the other one.

By errol (205.188.195.199) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:01 pm:

pop that collar back and use a 1/4 in punch to knock out that 'roll pin' that holds them together. Tap on the shaft backward to get it off of the shifter shaft out of the tranny! It can get pretty resistant!

By Don (209.181.52.98) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:01 pm:

Its a roll pin, you have to unsnap the little metal band and take a 1/4 drift punch (non- tapered) and drive it out. Its usually a major pain!

By Don (209.181.52.98) on Wednesday, August 15, 2001 - 10:03 pm:

Dang Errol! You beat me

By Todd (63.52.8.26) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 07:11 am:

If you have access to an air hammer, use that with a pointed bit to get the roll pin started. It saves time because as the guys said, its usually a major pain.

By Hondahead (24.67.176.212) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 08:17 am:

Major pain!No kidding!Once you get the roll pin out have fun getting the shifter shaft off!Why did Honda not make it like the Accord?One bolt and your done!I usually remove the bolt at the shifter end and pivot the shaft down as I pull the engine/tranny.Once out it's a snap to pound out the pin and twist off the shaft.Remember to lube well before re-install,in the future you or some one else will be glad you did.

By Sash (Sash) (207.225.87.147) on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 07:29 pm:

I got the EB3 out without removing that shaft. Just removed the entire front motor mount and pulled the engine as far forward as I could then raised the cherry picker. Out in minutes. I sounds like this is going to be my method from now on. Do you have to replace the pin every time or can you reuse the same one?

By errol (205.188.200.139) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 06:16 am:

Nope. I've even used a longer 10mm bolt and a self locking nut on the other side, and tossed the collar away. But how often do you expect to be taking it apart?

By errol (205.188.200.139) on Friday, August 17, 2001 - 06:20 am:

Sash, if it's going to be a little while till your putting it back in, Send me your shifter lever and for 25.00 I'll make it a 'short throw' one! About 2" from gear to gear. Mail me directly if so