Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Civic powered Sporting Trials car	3		10/20 07:15am

By Jacob (65.4.204.39) on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 05:44 pm:

I was kicking around the other day making a Civic 1200 Rallye car, and I wondered. For low end, would it be possible to put a 1500cvcc crankshaft in the 1200, combined with the goldwing pistons, an EB3 head, ported exhaust manifold and a decent carb, this would be a torque monster.

Just wondering if the 1500cvcc crankshaft will even come close to fitting.

Later
Jacob

By HondaKid (208.160.214.66) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 06:55 am:

Not that I know of.. only the early 1300's 80's

By Jacob (65.4.204.39) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:24 am:

That's all I've ever heard of too, but is there really that much difference between the 1300cvcc and the 1500cvcc?

By HondaKid (208.160.214.66) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 12:02 pm:

Good point You can get your hands on a 1500 crank and set in a 1200 block.. but I am sure the mains wont line up.
Mama always sayz you got to give it a try nobody else would!!!

By Todd (63.50.56.22) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 12:11 pm:

There are people down under that have done this just for rally. I think I heard the journals line up, they're just different diameter. If you want torque, go forced induction.

By Jacob (65.4.204.39) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 01:42 pm:

I'm always trying to find a different line to the same finish, especially if nobody else has done it. Not that forced induction is common.

By John S. (207.160.161.163) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 05:26 pm:

It has been tried, and with custom pistons and a hell of a lot of hand massageing it fit, but the cranking pressure is in the neighborhood of 12.5:1
220psi. It tends to blow the head off.
A Honda dealer mechanic I once met was the one who tried it, and he related the above info to me, so it is second hand.

By Charles (152.91.9.43) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 08:07 pm:

It can be done with all Honda parts and a fair bit of grinding.

I have seen one and this is what it was made up of,

Honda pistons, not sure which ones, pretty easy to work out by fitting a mock assembly together with a known piston and then using the higher or lower compression variant to suit.

Honda scamp rods (the weak point of the assembly)
Clearanced main bearing girdle, large amounts have to be removed to allow the rods to swing freely underneath.

Antother option is to have the thing further stroked and fit another brand of rods of the right length and with a smaller journal size. This is where a rod length and journal dimension database would come in handy.

I still think the best way to go is the 1335 crank and a 74mm bore to give 1410cc. Even without supercharging and with ultra low compression they go great (I ran my 6.8:1CR turbo motor without the turbo and it still pulled hard. As it is I run a very large turbo (Garret GT2530) for this size engine and the transition to boost is great with heaps of low down power (this is even with a Mugen R3 race cam which because of it's profiles should not really be much good for low down torque or boosting, but it is one of those oddities that works great. The car is ultra streetable and although it has a 7500rpm limit I get surprised to see the max revs recorded on the motec at the end of a trip (ie to work) at around 4500rpm. You just don't need the revs to give you the go.

By errol (64.12.102.43) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 10:46 pm:

I tried kicking it around. The ED3-4 1500 crank dropped right in the 1200 and the 1300EJ block. BUT when I started to turn it #3 crank 'throw' hit the oil galley cast to meet the crank saddle. Looking at it, seems like it wouldn't take that much to machine off!......Since I didn't have a 'free' rod from a 1300 at the time, I didn't check the rod clearence of the main saddle and rod. (Hell, It's aluminum... It can be welded up!) Then I dropped it in a 1300EJ block, If I were to do this the 1300 block looks better suited. (But the 1200 has a better head) and a 1600 accord head would lower the compression for you. (I've compared the ED to the EF and the EF has a noticeably larger combutstion chamber with the same valve sizes as the ED, which both will fit on a 1300 block.... Have I confused you yet??? So If you're going to stroke a 1200, save the headaches, get a 1300 rotating assembly and the goldwing pistons and good cam and gear ratio, and I think you'll be happy.

By Derek Keesing (210.48.1.2) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 06:27 pm:

Hi all
(new user)
I am looking to increase the available torque from an EN1 motor that I have in my Sporting Trials car. I would prefer to use parts readily available in NZ. Can some one give me a recipe
ie Pistons from x crank from y distributor from z.
I have a twin carb Triumph acclaim motor english Honda or so I am told to experiment with.

By errol (205.188.199.182) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 01:23 pm:

Took a EB3,EB2 block and dropped in a early 80's 1500 Em1 crank and... Dang! It fits! This particular crank does not have the double counter weigthts. It spins fine in "both" blocks! (Front and rear seals work also, from a 1200)
Now I'm looking into the 88-91 1500/1600 (D15/D16) rods, to see how much longer they are compared to the EM1 ones. The 88-91 rods have a thinner rod but the journal is wider from side of rod to the other. And the journal is about 120 thousenths smaller, so one could offset grind the throws for an even greater stroke!
Sure the main saddle needs to be ground, but who cares! IT CAN BE DONE!!!!
NExt is looking if a 84-87 civic flywheel will mount to the ED1500 crank! (more choices on clutch assemblies)

By John S. (207.160.161.212) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 01:49 pm:

I still think you will have to use the 1300 rods...(does anyone know of shorter ones?), and custom pistons. the 1500 stroke is 86.5mm...4.5 beyond the 82mm 1300, and the 1300 rods are shorter than 1200 rods to account for this. In any case, I will now keep a couple EM-1 cranks that would have otherwise have been thrown out with the bath water. I really am intrigued by the idea of a 74mm x 86.5mm EB(4).

By Tim Harding (Timh) (140.160.236.154) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 04:44 pm:

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but is the idea of rod/stoke ratio going out the window?
Insane piston speeds?
5000 rpm rev limit?

Not that intermixing Honda parts isn't fun

By Don (209.181.52.29) on Thursday, November 08, 2001 - 05:37 pm:

Tim, Actually rod ratio can work both ways.
In Offshore race boats boats and the 800 CI Pro stock drag engines have proved that short rods long stroke can make more power, depending on the port and camshaft design. If you can keep it together. Hondas are easy on parts, Use ARP rod bolts, Mag and prep the rods and the custom forged pistons will be safe for at least 6000.

There is an engine design seminar on tape and work book by Allan Lockheed (Ya, the son of the Aircraft company) I think its 175.00 and worth every penny.