Subtopic	Posts		Updated
	Automatic ring gear	3		11/17 09:38pm

By ddechon (12.91.126.157) on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 12:24 pm:

A little info about motors/generators....
Motors and generators can often be from the same device. I mean an electric motor turns from the power applied and a generator/alternator creates power from the turning motion. Most motors can be used as a genertor and visa/versa.

In my conversion I'll have an empty space for the starter. I'm planning to keep the flywheel, so I was thinking I could use the starter to my advantage.

I was thinking I could activate the starter solenoid while braking. The starter would then engage, CREATE electricity and charge the batteries.

What do you guys think?
Could it be done?

Darrell

By kelly (152.163.197.179) on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 01:20 pm:

just to clear things up,
are you going totally electric, or hybrid?
im not sure if the starter trick will work because if you engage the starter by a switch, then power is going to it. im not sure how the power would flow out of it. but i may have misunderstood you.
good luck,
kelly

By ddechon (12.78.117.148) on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 01:55 pm:

Power would only be applied to the solenoid to physicaly push it into the flywheel. Then the starter motor would turn and create its own output to the batteries.

I concerned that the starter gear would have trouble catching the flywheel. And I don't know what the output of the starter would be.

Darrell

By Charles (152.91.9.43) on Sunday, October 14, 2001 - 04:59 pm:

Why can't you just have the electric motor hooked up for regenerative braking. I assume you accelerator will be likle a large potentiometer and that when you foot is off the accelerator there is no circuit. When you apply the brakes the motor is still spinning and the brake light switch can be rigged so you complete the charge circuit and recharge the batteries to some extent. The actual mechanical braking can be set up to start a little later in the pedal travel.

Cool project anyway. What sort of rpm does the motor spin to? Are you even going to have gears or just a single gear?

PS As for the starter trying to catch the ring gear forget it. Have you ever tried to start a car when it is already running? Even a idle there is a hideous mismatch of speeds. Also the bearings are not set up for it and the heat and wear generated from the ringgear teeth if they are not lubricated would be excessive as would noise every time you hit the brakes.

By ddechon (12.91.115.159) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 02:32 pm:

That's a good point charles. Actually I hadn't thought about it. I need to think outside the box. I've been looking at other EVs and hardly any of them have regenerative braking through the drive motor. I really don't know what's involved yet with that system. I'll have to ask a few EV guys.

Does anybody have a broken Crank Shaft?

I need the flywheel end of the crankshaft as an adapter.

Here's a drawing of the parts I plan to have in my conversion. The yellow part is the one that I need for the conversion. http://www.geocities.com/ddechon/Ebay.html

If anybody wants to realease some anger and break their old crank shaft, I'll buy it!

Darrell

By Adrian (Civicguru) (203.42.97.227) on Monday, October 15, 2001 - 04:20 pm:

What you want is the flywheel and bellhousing from an Insight ... probably a bit tough to find though .
In case people don't know how they work, Honda replaced the flywheel with an electric motor. This acts as starter motor, auxiliary motor for when accelerating, alternator for when running on the petrol engine and when braking, oh and flywheel . It's really a very clever idea as it adds very little length to the engine while getting rid of the heavy starter motor and alternator and all their associated pulleys, belts, mounting brackets etc. Expect to see it filter out into plenty of other models in the future...

By Zippy (Zippy) (205.188.192.173) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 08:19 am:

Darrel,

I have 2 cranks from a 1200. I'd be happy to give you one if you'd like.

Roger

By ddechon (12.91.127.200) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 08:36 am:

Hey!!!

Alright!

Any good news on this EV project is like a ton of bricks off my shoulders. I'm stressing out because I'll be moving next year and I doubt the car will be ready by then. I'll probably have to tow it to CA (somehow). If I get a lot done with it, there's more of a reason to keep it. So now I've got another reason to keep it.

Do you think there is a chance you could break it in half to save shipping costs? Either way, I want it.

This might be my future motor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1649247871&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1003450151&indexURL=0&rd=1

Feel Free to Email
Thanks,
Darrell

By koop95 (24.102.134.112) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 12:43 pm:

I have an idea for you. The idea of incorporating the charger into the tranny area sounds like a load of work, $$, and reliability issues. Why don't you take an alternator, and add it on to the belt system in addition to your existing alternator. Try a solenoid pulley from an air conditioner from a newer car. The Honda systems are controlled by the computer to disengage under acceleration. If you could get a pulley to fit an alternator, I think it would be very easy to run with zero draw on the engine unless engaged.
Waddya think?
Chris

By Charles (152.91.9.43) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 03:38 pm:

I owned a Honda TN360 (you know the little vans honda first made), like a motor cycle they have a starter, flywheel and alternator as a single unit. And there are no ring gear or actual starter motor to wear out. It was bloody heavy and bloody hard to get off but it is a great idea.

By ddechon (12.91.125.211) on Tuesday, October 16, 2001 - 05:05 pm:

Thanks for ideas guys.

I'll have to stick to a basic design. I was thinking about the starter idea to charge the batteries because half the system is already there and I already have the most of the parts.

Most EVs have a DC to DC power supply to charge the 12 volt battery. The drive batteries would be converted to 12 volts for my battery.

I'll have to stick to the basics until I'm able to afford something better. I'd really like to use the motor for regenerative braking, but that sounds like a project itself.

I'm really glad to see that you guys are interested. Someday we'll have have electric grocery getters.

I'd like to have a car that floats like the trains in Japan. If every road in America had a metal strip, we could float on top of it with electro-magnets. Road noise and would be almost eliminated. There are so many ways we could travel. We've been traveling with cars and airplanes for a long time. It's about time we improved on it.

I'm also interested in electronic noise cancelation devices... A device that produces noise 180 degrees out of phase from the noise that is produced by the road. The noise from the road is then canceled. These devices are available but I have no idea where to get them.

Darrell

By ddechon (12.78.116.11) on Sunday, October 21, 2001 - 11:12 am:

I removed my battery tray.

Here's how it went.

I started going at it with a chisel and it really shows in some areas. In one place I made a hole through the fender. Oops! Are started working smarter...instead of harder. I started drilling the spot welds until I thought I was at the right depth, but not all the way through. Then the support plate came off easily.

I'll have to buy a sanding disk for my drill, then paint the area. It'll look pretty good when I 'm done.

No pictures developed yet.

Darrell

By ddechon (12.78.126.45) on Friday, October 26, 2001 - 04:33 pm:

Roger I got the part.
Thank You so much!
I owe you one!

I put it on my scanner for everybody to see.

Here it is.

http://www.geocities.com/ddechon/MyCar.html

Darrell

By Darrell (12.91.125.15) on Monday, November 12, 2001 - 11:24 am:

Here's a N600 electric conversion.

It's not the neatest conversion, but it works.

http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/325.html

Darrell

By ddechon (12.91.130.224) on Sunday, December 23, 2001 - 04:04 pm:

Hey I thought this site was down this whole time! Duh! It's great to be back. Here's the electric civic that I shared with the yahoo group.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/336.html

I haven't made any progress on my electric conversion, but I know a lot more now. I've been interested in AC power instead of DC (battery) power. Here's a guy with the latest AC technology in his CRX. Very Powerful too!
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/194.html
There's a company out there that produces a AC conversion kit that will beat a corvette, porsche... I can't afford the AC system now, so I'll probably go with a cheap DC.
I just got a digital camera so I'll share some photos soon.

Merry Christmas Everybody!
Darrell

By ddechon (12.91.133.240) on Tuesday, January 01, 2002 - 03:45 pm:

I updated my web page with some new pictures. You can see where my battery tray used to be.

http://www.geocities.com/ddechon/MyCar.html

It loads slow...be paitient.

Darrell

By John S. (207.160.161.236) on Saturday, January 05, 2002 - 10:25 am:

That is very clean for an origional car...what did the seats come out of?

By ddechon --Maryland-- (12.91.134.209) on Saturday, January 05, 2002 - 11:45 am:

Thanks John,

The seats are from Pontiac Sunfire 97? The adapter I rigged up for the seats isn't that great but it is strong. I don't recommend these seats because the don't fold all the way forward. They barely go past straight up. So the car might eventually be a two-seater. However, they do look nice and they are very comfortable.

A guy wrecked his car and was selling all his parts on ebay. I almost paid $200 including the shipping. I bought gray outdoor carpet from Home Depot and cut it myself to fit the floor.

I mentioned this in a previous string. I found that the best adhesive for cloth/vynal was tub-and-tile caulk. Everything else was a pain. It was cheaper too. I'd like to get a new dash some day.

Darrell

By ddechon --Maryland-- (12.91.134.71) on Sunday, January 06, 2002 - 06:48 pm:

Does anybody know where to find blueprint information for Honda transmissions? I'm looking for the measurements of the bell housing and shaft. It should look something like this...



Darrell

By errol (152.163.195.196) on Sunday, January 06, 2002 - 09:58 pm:

Darn! I just threw 2 away... Only kidding. Try Kennedy engineering in California, They make engine adapters for a 'vast' aray of bell housings and such.. Hope this helps

By ddechon --Maryland-- (12.91.121.98) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:54 pm:

Thanks errol.

I noticed Kennedy Engineering is in Palmdale. Are you from Palmdale?

Just curious because I'm from Paldale. (about 15 minutes away)

I should hear back from Kennedy Engineering next week.

Have a good one,
Darrell --Maryland--

By ddechon --Maryland-- (12.91.121.98) on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:57 pm:

Oops.

I meant to say I'm from Lancaster. Major typo.

Darrell

By Darrell --Maryland-- (12.91.129.170) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:33 am:

I bought a Motor!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1699148494

The motor is only 4 horsepower. An ideal electric motor for a car my size is usually rated at around 15 horsepower. Everything else looks good though. Plus because the motor is smaller it will be lighter.

I also bought the transmission plate adapter. Right now it's just an aluminum plate, but soon I'll have it machined to fit my tranny and motor. I'll probably machine the other aluminum plate for my flywheel.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1695881205

Eventually I'd like to get an AC (alternating current) system, but I could beat the price of these DC components.

Darrell

By Darrell --Maryland-- (12.91.129.170) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 08:37 am:

Any body know which direction honda engines rotate? I know they're backwards from other engines, but I'm not sure which direction.

Also in my previous message I meant to say "I couldn't beat the price..."

Thanks,
Darrell

By Anonymous (144.138.131.249) on Friday, February 08, 2002 - 05:11 pm:

Darrell, Honda engines rotate anti-clockwise as you look at it from the crank pulley end.

By ddechon --Maryland-- (12.91.114.74) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 02:47 am:

Thanks,
I'll have to change the rotation of the motor.

By dennis singley (65.101.1.193) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 05:59 am:

Just a little note of interest; after swimming upstream all these years by having their motor rotate the "wrong" way, Honda's new motors (in the RSX, CR-V, Civic SI) now rotate like all the others. The belts are on the rt. side, intake in ft, exh in rr. etc. This enables Honda to sell motors to GM!

By Darrell --Maryland-- (12.91.138.209) on Saturday, February 09, 2002 - 03:16 pm:

Me and another EV guy were just talking about that. I was wrong about changing my motor, so I won't have to change the motor rotation. I'm trying to pull my head out of my butt before I type, but sometimes my head gets stuck!
The other EV guy thought my motor would do great in a motorcycle, but oh well. I only need the car to go 1.5 miles at 30 MPH.

They probably didn't have to change much when they changed motor direction. The biggest thing would be the transmission. Other than that, the starter has to spin the other direction and there has to be minor timming changes.

I still have to get a motor controller, wires, fuses, batteries, battery trays and then spend hours building everything. So I'm still looking at another $700 bucks or so. Ebay here I come!

Darrell --Maryland--