By JeffR (67.219.93.187) on Monday, February 11, 2002 - 05:43 pm:

Thanks for all the replies on my last post (EK1 Engine Installed.......Won't Start!!!!!). I found out where the knocking was coming from. The distributor was bad. Replaced it with a new one and it is up and running. My mechanic took it to get it smogged and said it would not smog. Not because of the mod but because it was blowing about 1500 parts per mil or something like that. He said it might be because he did not think the vacume advance was working properly. Should there be vacume at idle? The car is a 79 CVCC with a 83 Accord EK1. I installed the original carb with dash pod and vacume lines. I hooked the vacume advance hose to the vacume advance module the same as before. The previous distributor was a points system. It should work the same shouldn't it? One other thing. The car has sat for at least a year or better. Would bad gas produce shi**y exhaust? One other hurdle I have to get over is the tranny seems to be unable to engage third and fourth gear. Had it rebuilt when I had the engine rebuilt. The frustration factor is starting to set in. Please Help.

Jeff

By Sash (Sash) (67.225.114.27) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 09:22 am:

I had that problem with the tranny at first on my swap. Took it in to get rebuilt, $315. It still occured, the tranny guy said that was the way the tranny shifted. I think he is full of it. try replaceing the linkage. It is easy to bend those in removal and installation. Good luck

By JeffR (144.141.47.14) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 11:04 am:

Sash the linkage did not get bent during installation or removal. I did have to weld the original shift arm from the 79 CVCC to the end of the shift arm from the 83 Accord because they bolted up different on the tranny. This could be the problem but it does not bind up anywhere. I have first, second, fifth, and reverese. I am not sure why it will not mesh with third and fourth. Did you have a problem with third and fourth also? Or just problems over all?

Thanks
Jeff

By natcho (208.195.243.203) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 01:34 pm:

Hey folks. Sorry to interject, but I thought I could be of some assistance. I'm not sure what your mechanical prowess is, and even though you managed to handle the swap yourself, there might be some other folks reading this post. If this seems over-simplified, just remember: we all had to start somewhere.

First, put on your safety goggles, cuz' we're going under the car. Don't have safety goggles, or jack stands for that matter? The hell?!? Stop reading now and get to the Kragen. Go on. We'll be here when you get back.

Good. Now, once you're wearing your goggles and the car is jacked-up and supported properly, slide underneath and take a look around. (This is the part where I might loose some of you, but if you get lost you probably shouldn't be doing this kind of thing anyway. Drop me an email and I'll send you a manual).


Ok. You'll have to tap out the clevis pin that holds the linkage to the transmission. This little step in the process can really suck if you don't have the right size driver, but keep looking until you find one. Persevere. And don't use a drill bit, they can shatter. You don't want sloppy shift linkage or blindness, do you? I didn't think so. Find a punch or even use an old bolt- just make sure that it's the right fit. Disconnect the shift linkage from the transmission and set the arm down and out of the way. Then go back to the tool box and find yourself a medium to large philips screw driver. Insert it through the clevis pin hole in the shift yolk (the round tube-like part that comes out of the transmission and was connected to the shift linkage. Don't get confused by the distance/support arm thingy that's held to the transmission with a 10mm bolt). The screwdriver should look sort of like the letter "T". Grab the screw driver with your fingers spaced equally on either side, and carefully try running the gears. Remember, gear shifting is an in-and-out movement, (immagine the linkage is still connected and you're watching the shifts) and neutral is a clockwise/counter-clockwise twist. Do it right, and you'll know for sure if you have a linkage problem or a tranny problem. AND BE CAREFUL! As you know, it is not always a good idea to shift a transmission when the car is not running.

If the tranny shifts OK with the screw driver, check your clutch cable/fluid set up to make sure everything is installed right. (Tight cable or plenty of good clean fluid and no air in the system). If your transmission is the problem, you should probably just replace it, since a good rebuld will run you at least two times the cost of a reliable used unit. If you do replace, look for an older model with a CLUTCH CABLE. It will work just fine with the EK, and you won't have to mess with fluid.

Lastly, if the problem is the clutch slave cylinder/cable and not the linkage or the transmission itself, you can always shift without the clutch (but I'd recommend practicing on a tractor first).

Good luck, and please be sure to let us know how it goes.

By JeffR (144.141.47.14) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 02:40 pm:

Thanks for the response Natcho. As I said in my previous post, I did not use linkage with the "clevis pin hole in the shift yolk" because the Tranny from the 83 Accord did not connect the same way. Instead, I used the existing shifting arm from the 79 and cut it off about 4 inches from the end. I then cut off the 83 accord shift arm about four inches from the end. I welded these two pieces together and ensured they were lined up the same. I did this because the way they connected coming out of the transmission was different. When I did the swap, I used the 83 Accord EK1 motor and 5 speed tranny. The tranny is the cable type clutch. Both the motor and the tranny were rebuilt. The shift arm does not bind up under neath the car. As I mentioned before, I am able to get first, second, fifth, and reverese but feel like I am hitting up against a wall in third and fourth. How do I know what gear I am in when shifting by hand underneath the car. I was under there while my son shifted the car. It was hard to tell what gear he was in or trying to go into because there is not much movement between gears. Thanks for the help.

Jeff

By natcho (208.195.243.203) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 03:23 pm:

Sorry I missed the linkage details from your last post.

Have you checked to make absolutely sure that the stock shift rod and your modified shift rod are the same length and that they line up? The Honda transmission is a delicate bird when it comes to tolerances. The slightest mis-allignment can really screw it up. No disrespect to your welding skills, but I would give the shafts a very careful look.

To wit: When you go to shift into 3rd, does it feel like the transmission starts to engage, like it wants to go in but can't, or is the gate completely non-existent (as if 3rd & 4th don't exist)? Even if the syncro or the gear or the shift fork were blocked, you would still be able to feel the beginning of the gate itself.

All those gears are sandwiched pretty close in there, and since you have some gears, I doubt you have a blockage. It's really like a big old clock, some of the tolerances are so tight. The only other thing I can think of is that one of your "detent balls" is screwy, but there is really very little chance of that happening-- IF that does happen to be the problem, it's a petty easy fix (assuming your wife will let you tear down your tranny on the coffee table).

I haven't played with an 83 Accord for a long time, but if the shaft coming out of the tranny is similar to the Civic, then you can still drop the linkage and give the gears a try. You will be able to tell which gear you are in under the car by shifting the screw driver all the way to the left (counter-clockwise), pushing in, and engaging first. Keep the screw driver turned to the left, and pull it out a click for neutral, then out another click for second. To find third from second, you can let the tranny guide you (like it does when you shift inside the car) or you can push the screw driver in a click to find neutral, then rotate slowly clockwise while gently pushing the shaft in to the transmission. Once you find third, (and let's hope you do), you can repeat the pull out a click and then another click procedure you used to find second. Also, depending on the transmission, the gate to third and fourth is like a default possition when the shift linkage is in neutral. You can try letting go of the screw driver to see where the transmission rests, and that will likely be third and Fourth. Fifth, of course, is all the way to the right (clockwise) and in. Fifth is an easy one to find, specifically because reverse is opposite in the shift pattern and most transmissions make a definate "click-clunk" when shifted into reverse. Also, the distance from the standard "H" (first through fourth) to the gate for fifth is just a little bit wider than the distance between the other gates. You can't always tell from inside the car, but once you're running the gears like I described, you will probably be able notice the difference.

And please don't hesitate to let me know if you need anything else!

By JeffR (67.219.77.28) on Tuesday, February 12, 2002 - 08:41 pm:

Thanks for the response. The following is the way I fabricated the shift rod.

1. I cut the shift rod from the 79 civic about 4 inches back from the clevis pin.

2. I took the shift rod from the 83 accord and cut the rod about 1 foot back from the linkage that connected to the tranny.

3. The shift rod for the accord had a larger diameter then the 79 civic shift rod. This allowed me to slip the 79 shift rod inside the 83 accord shift rod.

4. The way I lined it up was. I took the 12 inch section of the 83 shift rod end that had the linkage and mated it to the 83 tranny.

5. I then took the 79 shift rod portion and slipped it into the 12 inch section of the 83 accord shift rod.

6. I had my son ensure that the shift lever inside the car was resting centered in neutral in the car.

7. I then connected the 79 shift rod portion to the shifter in the car.

8. With the shift lever in the car resting in neutral, I then scored a mark on the shift rod and this is where I welded it at. Actually my neihbor welded it for me.

As far as if it feels like it is partially going into third or fourth. No. Going out of first and sliding across to third feels like a wall untill you get to fifth and it goes into fifth. First, second, fifth, and reverse go in smoothly. you mentioned going into first would be pushing in on the tranny. Isn't it the opposit? In the car when you go forward with the shifter, underneath the car the shift rod is actually going backwards. I think the problem with the shifter isn't the tranny but something slightly off with the linkage. Do you think this is something the person who rebuilt the tranny would be able to adjust to get it to work? Thanks for all your help.

Jeff

By natcho (208.195.243.203) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 12:59 pm:

This is why office diagnosis of transmissons is problematic.

You are correct, I switched push and pull in my instructions. Sorry about that.

The advice is still valid, though: a "wall" keeping the shifter out of 3rd and 4th is a little strange, especially on a re-built transmission with access to the other gears. The problem with the 83 transmission/79 shift arm is, the shift arm on a 79 was designed for the gear distances and throw of a 79 tranny.

Let me explain. Is it possible that the "H" on an 83 Accord transmission is narrower, meaning that the distance between the gates for 1st and 3rd is not as far? So the 79's "H" looks like this: H and the "H" on the 83 looks like this: H? If that is the case, then the default neutral possition of the shift arm on your 79 would have been too close to the gate for 5th when you lined up the shift arms under the car. I submit that you are passing the gate for 3rd entirely when you shift, landing somewhere between the gates to 3rd and 5th because the shift arms did not alligned properly.

Lastly, I stand by my suggestion that you climb under the car and run the gears, just to make absolutely sure that you do not have a transmission problem. It's basically what the person who re-built the tranny will do, and if you do it yourself you'll be saving his/her time as well as saving yourself some money.

The other problem with office diagnosis of car problems is, I don't have access to a schematic of the 83 tranny and linkage you described. Sorry about that.

Lastly, if climbing under the car is problematic, then try shifting the car in a tighter "H" pattern. Sneak the shift lever as close to first as you come out of second, and you just might find that you have a 3rd gear after all. Same thing applies going in to 4th-- keep the "H" close and you might just find the gear. All those rubber bits at the bottom of the gear shift will suffer for it, but at least you'll have a better handle on the problem.

Keep me posted

By JeffR (144.141.47.14) on Thursday, February 14, 2002 - 02:35 pm:

Thanks for the Office Diagnosis Natcho, I have not driven the car yet but playing with the shifter, I felt as if I shifted close to first it may have been hitting 3rd. I am picking it up from my Mech tonight. I will check that. If it is a matter of to close, How can I modify it to work? Also what is your take on bad gas producing bad exhaust emmisions resulting in a failed smog test?

Thanks

Jeff

By errol (64.12.102.154) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 02:46 pm:

Do a simple 'suck' test on the vacume can on the distributor. (pull the hose off and Just lean over and suck it) Does it hold vacume? or does it leak? Did you 'time' it (mine seem to like 12-16 deg.) I always hook mine up to a strait Manifold vacume. If you have a gauge, see what it is at idle,(from the port it's connected to) and then about 3000rpm

By natcho (208.195.243.203) on Friday, February 15, 2002 - 04:11 pm:

Re-weld the linkage, if you have your heart set on further modification, but I would probably just pay close attention to my shifts for a while and leave it at that. Assuming you are able to find 3rd and 4th inside the car at all, of course. Until you climb under the car and do a proper transmission diagnosis, there's really no way to say for sure. If minding your shifts becomes problematic, you can always attempt to re-weld the shift arms. Again, a lot depends on the transmission and the way the linkage was welded in the first place. You could also use the complete shift linkage from an 83, shunt the shift arm to fit, and modify the gear shift-- but why create more problems for yourself?

As to the gas issue, I can't really say if that is the cause of your smog problem. As errol suggested, I would look to your timing first, then go from there.

I will say this, though, and only because I think it bears repeating. If your car has been sitting for a while, you really need to pay attention to the fuel supply system. Make sure the stock fuel filter is clean and in place, and don't let your fuel drop below a quarter tank. You might consider getting the tank drained, if only because the dregs can be full of rust and other particulate matter that will clog your carb in a heartbeat. I keep my tank pretty full, but if I was doing a full restoration or I wasn't sure of the car's fill-up history (good gas, keeping the tank full, not running out of gas on a regular basis), I would definitely drop the tank and have it re-sealed or replaced. You don't need to go that crazy, though. Just keep it full and change the fuel filter regularly until you run the old gas out of the tank.

I probably won't check the discussion board from home this weekend, but I look forward to an update on Tuesday morning. Good luck!

By dennis singley (65.101.1.171) on Saturday, February 16, 2002 - 05:05 am:

If the car has been sitting, smell the gas. Does it smell like gas at the station or does it smell like shellac? Gas does get old & varnishes, it will smell funny & doesn't burn well. This has caused me to drain tanks, flush lines & rebuild carbs in the past.

By JeffR (67.219.93.182) on Monday, February 18, 2002 - 06:09 pm:

Thanks for all the reply's. Here is the latest. The car is still at my mechanic and he had told me he thought the problem might be the timing belt is not lined up. Well to save on money he allowed me to chech it while it was at his shop. Sure enough, it is off about 1 maybe two teeth. The guy that rebuilt the motor probably figured the two lines on the cam pully needed to be lined up with the head, along with the notch pointing up. That is the correct way for the 1.3 but the 1.5 and 1.7 calls for the line to be lined up with the arrow. He did not get to it today but should have an update tomorrow. If the intake and exhaust valves were not oping at the right times then I would think it would have an effect on my emmisions. Know update on the tranny. But I think the problem lies with the shift rod. The car ran so bad it felt like I was starting out in 3rd instead of 1st. My mech thinks I have 1st, 2nd, fifth, reverse. We'll see once it is running better. It seems odd that I would have 1,2,5,R. I could see where I could be missing 1 and 2 because the shifter might not be going far enough to left to grab 1 and 2. I'll chech tomorrow.

Thanks
Jeff