By PJ (216.243.98.49) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 01:12 pm:

This is an email to me inquiring as to what all of the first generation guys might want. I will include all of the non essential talk to get you guys up to speed and hip to the fact that Oscar and I have been conversing on the subject of the first generation Honda speed parts including MORE JACKSON HEADERS !!
If you like you can email Oscar directly, but please, dont say you want something if you can't pay the piper.
DON'T WASTE THIS GUYS TIME WITH PIE IN THE SKY. IF YOU REALLY WANT SOMETHING SAY SO AND BE ABLE TO BUY IT.
My email addr is pjj@lobo.net
Oscar Jacksons is: oscar@jacksonracing.com
+++++++++++++++++++++
Hi PJ,

I have been thinking about you quite a bit lately. I was in Albuquerque on July 13-17th visiting family. While I was there my cousin drove me up to Red River to look around. As I told you, I raced motorcycles most of my life and still love dirt riding. I have been dirt riding the mountains around Telluride, Colorado since 1972 but it has just gotten to "Yuppie" anymore. You can't go anywhere without someone telling you that you can't. So I started exploring other alternatives. Red River was one of the them.

Anyway, while I was in Albuquerque my cousin drove me out around the
outskirts of the city and I saw the Sandia race track. Made me think about you and your Civics. I have one original set of my fender flares/air dam
and have been thinking about building new molds so I could produce a few sets of fenders. Do you think there is any interest in the old fender kits?
I also have one original header that I was thinking about building tooling for, and producing them also. Again, do you think there is any interest in
them?

I eventually drove my RV back to Albuquerque August 15th and took my oldest son, Oscar III (13 yrs old) up to Red River and we went dirt riding for a week in the mountains. It was a nice retreat from the hustle a bustle of the daily R&D work.

I have a few original Civic parts from years ago and have been thinking about up dating them. One of my crazy ideas was to take an original dual
sidedraft manifold and adapt electronic fuel injection using 4 individual
throttle bodies onto an old casting. Then convert the cars to "crank fire" ignition and a TEC II stand alone fuel injection system. My concern is
whether or not the racing sanctioning bodies will allow FI? My main reason for going to fuel injection is that I don't believe the small Dellorto side draft carbs exist anymore. Do you know if they exist? If they are still available, I could make new tooling to reproduce the original side draft manifolds for the small carbs. The larger Weber carbs require the 90
degree distributor drive so that didn't seem like a very good idea.

Let me know what you think.

Oscar Jackson

By Paul Krummenacker (12.145.208.12) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 01:52 pm:

WOW!!!! that's like getting a direct message from GOD!! YES!! We definately want some goodies from Oscar. I just pray that he doesn't forget us with the EK1 Accord cars and motors. I'm still looking for a 4 exhaust port header for my Accord (since UPS lost the one from Rick) Ideally a 4-2-1 style so we don't lose the mid range power.

FI is not a problem in SCCA Rally, so bring it on!
Also, if Oscar wants to lend some knowledge on how to squeeze more power out of an EK1 or how to get rid of the CVCC system... Wow... maybe Oscar knows what NON CVCC head will fit on an EK1 block... I'll have to ask him.

Paul K.

By quikrick (63.204.16.66) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 02:36 pm:

A couple of years ago I emailed Oscar... he was very polite but not very interested. This is very good. Sport Compact car did a small interview with him... I think the in a 1998 issue, where Oscar mentions driving on highway 39 (Angeles Crest) back in the mid 70's in Southern California in his first gen. Civic, He was able to keep up with a mustang, it turns out that the driver of the mustang was a writer for some auto magazine!

By Ramon Milano (207.5.4.95) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 03:22 pm:

Do you know which fender flares he is talking about. He produced two different sets in my 1985 Jackson racing catalog. A full fender Mugen type and a 4 inch single fender flare type with integral air dam.

This is same catalog I have and I am extremely interested in the middle fender flare kit with the four spoke rims. I called in the early 1990's they said they might know who could reproduce these again but I never got a call back and when I returned the call know one knew what I was talking about. I am wiling to pay good money for this set. I already have those same rims in 13x7 polished and ready to go.

Thanks
Ramon Milano
Gilroy, Ca

By PJ (216.243.98.39) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 08:27 pm:

Responding to quikrick: I think that a couple of years ago he was pretty well immersed in having his hi volume aftermarket business do well financially. My take on this is that he is perhaps having a bout of nostalgia for the early days that helped his business get where it is now. Remember these questions came from him un-prompted today, not a few years ago. PJ

By dennis singley (65.101.0.212) on Tuesday, September 25, 2001 - 09:27 pm:

please Oscar return to your roots! it's getting tougher & tougher for us "old school" guys to keep up with the young bucks & their hi dollar vtec'd, turbo'd, decal'd hondas. i am building an EL1 for my '80 civic 1300dx 5 spd. i need a 4-port header!
dennis

By Don (209.181.52.71) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 07:20 am:

One thing we have to keep in mind in that asking Oscar to tool up for a el1 header or one of the other things mentioned, is that it has to be profitable. Most late model Honda headers are in the 300 + range for quality. And the low volume after the initial surge, may require the headers to be even more$

What would be a better approach is to ask what hot rod civic part would 100+ people be willing to purchase and how much would they pay? And then submit that to Oscar or someone else. As lots of 5 or ten of anything cost big $. Other wise we seem to be a lost cause, business wise.

As for the header there are lots of custom header places that can make a header for you. It will not be that much more per header than a small production run.

By PJ (216.243.98.52) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 10:30 am:

Don has an excellent point for all to keep in mind. PJ

By natcho (208.195.243.199) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 02:47 pm:

I agree with Don as well. Headers aren't nearly as difficult to come by as fender flares (do a keyword search and you'll see what I mean). PJ, should we email him with positive responses, (NOT order inquires!), or will you be the messenger?

By PJ (216.243.98.50) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:11 pm:

Probably a good idea would be to put them on the discussion board and when all the opinions are in I'll try to render them down to one email that he can deal with. After all he is still running a business that pays the daily toll.

By errol (64.12.106.52) on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 11:33 pm:

Hey Pj.. you did give him this address? What about a header kit. All the pipes and you get your 'exhaust guy' to weld them up? It would save on a 'jig' and coating....I'm sure he would use 'anonymous'... I would

By natcho (208.195.243.199) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 03:32 pm:

Ok, if you're cool with this, PJ, lets start a rough list of what we'd most like to see Jackson Racing make. Definitely headers, right? What about body kits? (Ramon is sending me copies of his old Jackson Racing catalogue with pictures of their kits. I'll post them for everybody to think about.) I think it would be a nice gesture to give PJ a nice fat order list to e-mail to Oscar, just so he knows we're not just a bunch of flakes.

Of the things Oscar Jackson suggests, which do ya'll most want to buy?

That said, ya'll realize this endeavor might not be the cheapest, right? Errol may be on to something in suggesting that we save Mr. Jackson some money if we can. Even with all our orders, we probably won't begin to approach the kind of volume his company is used to; and a limited production run=high cost, y'know? I just think it's a good thing to keep in mind.

Also,the fuel injection system he described sounds great, but maybe we should ask the folks at JR to save all the R&D/tooling costs of building it until there's enough demand to offset the costs. So many of us would be more than happy to have a header or an "old" body kit, it's just a better use of resources, don't you guys think? Who knows? To be honest, I assumed he was so bored with 1st generation Civics that he would never consider building parts for them again.

IS there demand for the throttle body/fuel injection system he described? Anybody?

By natcho (208.195.243.199) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 03:47 pm:

I'm pretty tired today, so I'm sorry for the rambling nature of the message I just posted. Don did a much better job of saying the same thing I was trying to say- and he did it yesterday.

My real concern is that we keep the lines of communication with JR open, and that we keep in mind (as Don suggests) that Oscar is in business to make money, not to fulfill all our Honda dreams.

That said, let me reiterate that I think we should take an "order" on the discussion board before we go firing off our requests to Oscar Jackson. I personally don't need another header, and I don't have much use for the intake he suggested, BUT I WOULD PAY JUST ABOUT ANYTHING FOR ONE OF HIS NARROW BODY KITS! Body shops have quoted me $550/side just to flare the rear fenders on my car, and even then they want me to find the blanks before they'll do the work.

Did that make better sense? Now I can go take a nap.

By John S. (207.160.161.164) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 05:38 pm:

Yeah, but wouldn't you think of all people he would want a cherry 1st Gen in his stable?

By Don (209.181.52.85) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 06:31 pm:

Just so you know a throttle body fuel injection system allready is made by TWM, its a generic body designed to fit in place of a 40 mm DCOE weber. So if you dig up a single side draft Canon or CACI intake you could buy one tomorrow.

By PJ (216.243.98.34) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 08:16 pm:

OK guys, so howabout we start simply by polling items one at a time. How many of you are seriously interested in the 4 to 1 headers. Lets hear from you ?

By go4mo (24.69.255.202) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 08:43 pm:

headers . yes please.
mo

By Sash (Sash) (207.225.88.235) on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 08:52 pm:

right here. A header is wanted.

By Todd (63.50.56.76) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 04:09 am:

One point to remember is that Oscar's header is the Basani design with large primaries. If you have anything other than a fully prepped race engine, you're going to *lose* power.

By Don (209.181.52.50) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 07:18 am:

The small diameter 1200 headers are still available from other sources & from an old post S&S will do a run if a certain # of people place an order.
Todds right if you use the big diameter headers they must be used on a race motor.

By Paul Krummenacker (12.145.208.11) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 11:03 am:

I'd like 2 4-2-1 headers for an early EK1

Also if the body kit would be adaptable to an Accord, I'd be interested. and provided it isn't HUGE amounts of money, I MIGHT even consider getting a body kit and then getting a Civic... hmmmm....

if nothing else, I want some flanges to make my own headers. heck, even the patterns would be enough for me.

I think a big thing that Oscar could provide, is his knowledge. Maybe we could get him to write out some FAQ on how to get more performance out of the early Hondas. I've got a copy of the Glenn Marston Honda Performance book, but I'm sure there are some more tricks that Oscar didn't get to put into that book.

Paul

By Don (209.181.52.57) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 05:01 pm:

http://www.4customexhaust.com/Components.html

heres a link for ya Paul

These guys are not too far from you and they will cut out custom flanges from tracings of any head you want. If only they made 1 3/8 mandrel bends

By dennis singley (65.101.2.66) on Friday, September 28, 2001 - 10:15 pm:

body kits don't make you go faster!!!!! while anyone with some pipe & a welder can rig up some headers, it would be nice to have some that are already proven to make power. i've talked to s & s and also pace setter & they don't even aknowledge to have the old plans!!! body kits, come on, next thing you know you'll be slapping decals all over the fender & putting a fart pipe on the back. what's wrong with good clean bodywork for that sleeper look? sorry if i've offended anyone but body kits, come on!!!!

By Paul Krummenacker (216.26.39.192) on Saturday, September 29, 2001 - 01:18 pm:

remember, some of use to really race and the fenders are required if you are running wide tires. In my case, the fenders would be nice to keep from blanketing my car with mud and rocks.

see the photos here:
http://www.oregonrally.com/gallery/2001/waco_2001/dirty_honda.jpg

http://www.oregonrally.com/gallery/2001/waco_2001/dirty_honda2.jpg

and for headers, I think MOST of use would benefit from a 4-2-1 style header, as I don't think there are many of us that are doing quarter miles exclusively. I know my Accord seems to actually run a tiny touch slower when I have the exhaust that vents out the side unmuffled. I find a little back pressure to be a good thing with the stock motor.

Paul

By go4mo (24.69.255.202) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 08:57 am:

i'd like a juicy cam for my en1 1300 motor ..
and hey there don!
what are some other links we might find to do the "1200" size header in a 4-2-1 pattern?
thanks for all your expertise
cheers
mo

By Don (209.181.52.13) on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 05:56 pm:

"it would be nice to have some that are already proven to make power"
In theory this would be a great idea. Since we all don't run the same spec engines a header that works well for one person may not give you the boost you think on another engine that has different parts.

The 421 "tri-Y" headers sometimes work well but so do the 4-1 headers if the pipes are sized correctly. Ground clearance is the biggest advantage for the 421 that I can see.

I know of no 421 headers currently manufactured for a 1200

For a daily driven street car an RS manifold (or maybe an EN?)(Todd you can send me the sales commission )with a low restriction, mandrel bent-no compression bends! 1 3/4, maybe 2" max exhaust system would be my choice. The RS wont rust out or blow gaskets as easy, low restriction while still maintaining small primarys. Good ground clearance. The "tuned length" is not a big deal in non-competition engines.

The biggest thing to remember is not to get crazy with big pipes in most applications.

Remember the biggest power gain is a properly sealed engine; don't spend money on hot rod parts if your engine has mega miles on it, and if it smokes... forget it! Start with a quality rebuild first.

Go to the keyword search and type in "header"
I seem to remember someone finding a supplier for a 1200 header at 275 USD (Kirk Racing???)

No one wanted to spend that, So I really don't blame the companies for treating us like they could careless, And from the posts in this thread,I don't even see five people that want the same header application.

By Nikolaj (213.197.5.100) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 01:16 am:

Reading this makes everything pretty clear: We all want different things, are using different engines and parts, and yes, we drive an old civic because most off us can't afford to throw thousands of dollars in our car and the civic is good fun for not much money... We all want different things, and it's gonna be extremely hard to find like 50 people not only wanting the same part, but actually being prepared to pay..!
I personally think the JR headers are the best bet for most interest! I read of so many people looking for one, and yes there are still some headers made, but I haven't been hearing the greatest stories about them. My question is, to what extend must my civic be race-prepped to use this header?? I have kind of an RS cam (I think) and am rebuilding my engine with stock valve sizes. I have the double carbs from Keihin...
So I would like to pay for a header, but I need to know my gains/losses...! I commend PJ for all the effort, it seems like this is what we were waiting for....JR is thinking about their roots!

By Don (209.181.52.25) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 07:28 am:

Your combo would make more power with a small diameter primary header like A/T's. The Jackson header was made for a full race gt5 type engine.

The "through the valance" of the Jackson style would probably not last long in street use. I had both styles of headers with my car and they were both damaged on the bottoms cause of hanging too low. I would think that this type of damage would happen even faster with street use.

By Todd (63.50.56.253) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 01:59 pm:

I have used 3 different exhausts on my black car and can tell you this. The RS exhaust makes the most torque on my motor. I used the stock manifold and made my own down pipe using the stock flange and a merge collector. (Thank you High Tech!)
The Kirk racing was a good quality, sturdy header, but made NO power. Coming in second in power is just an el-cheapo like JC Whitney used to sell (Two piece 4-1 design).
Hey Oscar,
I still use the Dells, I could let you borrow my manifold this winter during the off season.

By natcho (208.195.243.199) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 03:34 pm:

All good points, all good points. Ramon is sending me a copy of an old JR catalogue from back when they made products for our cars. I'll post some technical specs, just for people to think about.

And please understand that I'm not suggesting an either/or kind of thing (IE headers OR body kits, but not both). Remember, the biggest variable in question here is Oscar Jackson. Who knows what he'll decide to build? I, for one, would love to have a reliable source for the parts I need (JR?) but I am also very clear about what I will and will not be putting on my car. If JR's stuff doesn't suit my application, then perhaps I'll just have to look somewhere else. The tricky thing is, JR is really the only (domestic) company I know of that truly put time and effort into learning about early Hondas.

That said, my intention was just to let him know that there was most definitely a demand for his line of products- but anything more specific- "Only 1 inch primaries, please!" "No wide flares, please!" would be a waste of his time as well as mine.

So now what? JR has more experience with our model car than most, but if I have to modify their products to fit my car, despite how carefully engineered they may be, is it worth it? Frankly, I have half a mind to buy what ever they decide to build, just to keep them interested in making products to fit my car; but then, how many of us can afford to do that sort of thing?

My hope is that Oscar Jackson (courtesy of PJ) will realize that it would be best to aim for the middle of the spectrum when re-producing his line of parts for first Gen. Hondas. I don't think most of us have a use for racing style flares or large diameter headers- but I'm pretty sure we could all benefit from a proven, mid-range header or a close-to-stock fender flare.

(Which reminds me: I was ardently anti-body kit as well, until I put Racecraft brakes on the car and bigger wheels. I want my car to look as stock as possible, but I'd also like to be able to take a corner faster than .5 mph with out scraping rubber off my tires. Flares may not seem like much of a performance upgrade, but you'd be surprised.)

One thing is for sure: there just aren't enough reputable sources still selling quality parts for these cars. And, the companies that do sell parts for our cars often do so just to clear out old inventory- and then they stop carrying the parts altogether. Plus, there's an accessibility issue. I love my Racecraft brakes, but shipping them from Australia caused a whole set of problems that I never would have encountered if I had been able to find a comparable product here in the States. There is definitely an opportunity to make a difference to the first gen. Honda community, and to make some money in the process, but will Oscar Jackson be the one to do it? Time will tell.

By Andrew Fatseas (203.102.206.3) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 07:15 pm:

Perhaps you guys should try and convince JR to make a copy of the RS 4-2-1 manifold, since so many swear by it for street use?

By PJ (216.243.98.55) on Monday, October 01, 2001 - 08:56 pm:

Oscar has this address now, and he will look in on your responses after things settle down from his SEMA event. I rather doubt that he will post anything on this forum for obvious time related reasons, but I expect that he will try to render down all the responses to something manageable. If things look like they could sustain some sort of small rea$on to re-engage in making things for the 1st Gen. Honda performance world, he may just surprise us all.

By Anonymous (208.60.186.141) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 12:53 pm:

Mr. Jackson could produce the mugen type brake caliper adaptors and other 4x100 conversion parts pretty reasonably, and they would work on civics and early accords. I would also like to see an intake with dual stock carbs, if it can be done. It would be easier to find parts for our stock carbs and tune them than exotic carbs, and there would be more clearance than w/ sidedraughts. We already have one of them in the car, too. It's something to think about. Anyone else interested? Tony T.

By Don (209.181.52.93) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 05:54 pm:

The stock carbs are junk, I think you would be asking for trouble with two. The caliper adapters are available from Adrian (Civic Guru)I think.

By errol (205.188.195.172) on Tuesday, October 02, 2001 - 11:01 pm:

I would say; a 4/100 conversion, rotor/drum or rotor rotor. Delrin bushings for all the suspension (you'd be suprised how cheap this stuff is!) and metal to weld in on the lower control arms front and back to stiffen them up, sway bars front and rear, Seat gliders that you can put newer seats in, CAM PULLYS, Porting service, "send me your crank and I'll offset grind a stroker" service, Plating for the cam followers, POSI UNITS!!! (they fit from the 70's to the late 80's) And a cheap steel wheel that is wider than 5" With a 4/120 with a little offset!, steering wheel adapters, Performance fuel pumps, WEll sorry for the ramble. e

By Anonymous (168.30.216.201) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 06:41 am:

I know Adrian can get the brackets, but he's in Aus., it'd be nice to have a U.S. supplier. Most people with civics would be interested in the 4x100 conversion, I think. Here's a few thoughts for the pile, how about the custom oil pans and crossmembers required to swap in the B and D series engines. Valve springs, larger valves,and other engine hard parts. Maybe some bolt on flares, or a more contemporarily styled body kit. I think that someone like Mr. Jackson would also be able to help us by sharing knowledge, I assume that all of the old school suppliers have a wealth of information that we could use, if we can find it. How does that sound? Tony T.

By errol (64.12.103.54) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 07:26 am:

Oh and a few other things; A coil over conversion with a lowered strut, kind of like a 84-87 crx (which fits the knuckle!and is smooth all the way up from the brake line ataching point for a threaded sleeve to easily fit over!) and a upper shock mount/caster/camber kit to do away with the goofy stock one, There are TONS of wheel manufacturers in SoCal, so how about some 'blanks' redrilled for a 4/120 bolt pattern! ....I'll be back with more!!

By John S. (207.160.161.231) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 09:17 am:

I'll second the caster/camber kits...

By Zippy (Zippy) (205.188.192.43) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 09:26 am:

I'd be interested in a pre-fab weld in roll cage to ITC specs. I'll third the caster/camber plates. Also some sway bars. but slowly, I have to save for each. Lets be careful not to request they overlap with things other people are making like groundcontrol struts, cams, etc.

By Don (209.181.52.27) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 05:49 pm:

A lot of what was requested in the last few posts is already available right now! Don't worry about ordering from Australia I bought 2 complete sets of poly bushes that are really well designed and the shipping for both sets was like 12 dollars US. for economy post it took 1 1/2 weeks.

So don't wait for someone to hit you in the head with these parts, go get them if your serious.

1200 Valve springs are available from a place in California 250 set. Slightly stiffer springs from a 75 Cvcc exhaust?? (have to check on this one) is also an option

Check the links page for the sway bars
I think they are like 200 ea.

Carrera makes some camber caster plates for around 300. If you prefer I can hunt up the name of the place in Cal that did mine for around the same price 6 years ago.

Custom made struts are available from Ground Control at 800 ea. or you can rework the early stock casings for much cheaper.

A roll cage could be made up by a local race car shop that does all my work and shipped, but it may be $ ahead to source a local shop.

And Adrian can get the 4-100 stuff

If you guys are serious about parts I could probably round up some more suppliers but it all takes $$$.

By Anonymous (64.38.94.110) on Wednesday, October 03, 2001 - 10:18 pm:

What was the price for the poly bushing sets. Do the have an web site.

By Don (209.181.52.51) on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 07:17 am:

Location Description Part Number Kit Notes
F Control Arm Lower - Inner Bush SPF1468K 1 3/73 - 3/77
F Strut Bar to Chassis Mount SPF1469K 1 3/73 - 6/79
F Strut Bar to Lower Control Arm SPF1642K 1 7/97 - 11/83
F Strut Bar to Lower Control Arm SPF1316K 1
F Sway Bar Mount to Chassis Bush SPF1333-14K 1 Check Bar Diameter 12,14mm available.
R Radius Rod SPF1471K 1 Front Bush.
R Radius Rod SPF1470K 1 Rear Bush.


These products are from fulcrum suspensions catalog. They seem to use a softer poly with grease to allow a good range of movement.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/store/
is a supplier just punch in the numbers from above and add to cart then at the end choose economy post, and you can get your own estimate ( its the # that starts with S and ends with K)
Also the rear inner and outer control arm bushings are not listed so you may call white line and see. I put a bearing in there so I did not need it.

http://www.rvi.net/~dforeman/fsuspension.html
here is a small picture of one of the bushings before I installed it. No the web site is not done, one of my "todo things" may be next year before my domain runs out with out even being used.

By Don (209.181.52.10) on Thursday, October 04, 2001 - 05:25 pm:

PS Dollars in Aus. are approximately 1.8 to 1 so in US Dollars its almost half price

By PJ (216.243.98.55) on Tuesday, October 09, 2001 - 11:33 am:

Are we all finished adding our wants to this subject?

By Ramon (207.5.4.95) on Monday, November 19, 2001 - 02:23 pm:

Any word on any of this yet?????

Ramon

By PJ (216.243.98.39) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 06:57 pm:

Not as Yet But I'll give him a call soon.
PJ
pjj@lobo.ner

By PJ (216.243.98.39) on Thursday, November 22, 2001 - 06:58 pm:

oops...PJJ@lobo.net